perc2100 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 That is not correct. 1. First of all, there are only seven TOC shows. The Omaha show is no longer a TOC show. 2. Of those seven TOC shows, five were existing shows converted to TOC shows. Even the two season-opening shows in Texas come at the cost of losing the two "three Cs" shows of last year. The TOC doesn't give us "more shows" at all. Not to nit-pick, but I would stipulate (without looking it up) that NONE of the shows being replaced with TOC events had ALL of the Top 8 corps in performance. It might not give members more performances, per say (we'd have to get someone to correlate the data of a ToC corps' 2010 schedule v 2011), but it will give them more competition. Or at the very least, it will give them alternative performances that aren't the typical DCI shows. Regardless, it gives the fans a chance to see the Top 8 at the same show, something that rarely, if ever, happens outside of the big all-inclusive focus shows or Championship week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) or...better yet....have corps of all kinds there. just promoting the top is not going to bring new fans out in droves. Jeff, if you are trying to decide between going to two different shows and all other things considered equal one has 3 top 12 corps and 5 non finalists, and the other has 5 top 12 corps and 3 non finalists, which will you go to? My guess would be the second. A show with the top 8 from the previous year will draw a bigger crowd than a "standard" line up. Count on it. This is no different than the eliete "top 12" that's been basically doing forever what the TOC shows do just on a different scale. Every "finals" show involving top 12 over the years or involving ANY kind of prelims finals set up has "excluded" those who didn't make it in. You can say all you want that it's different because the line up is decided differently but is it really? There are only a handful of corps over the years that have broken into finals other than the "regulars", so what's the difference in the concept or ideology? Edited January 25, 2011 by BozzlyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Not to nit-pick, but I would stipulate (without looking it up) that NONE of the shows being replaced with TOC events had ALL of the Top 8 corps in performance. It might not give members more performances, per say (we'd have to get someone to correlate the data of a ToC corps' 2010 schedule v 2011), but it will give them more competition. Or at the very least, it will give them alternative performances that aren't the typical DCI shows. Regardless, it gives the fans a chance to see the Top 8 at the same show, something that rarely, if ever, happens outside of the big all-inclusive focus shows or Championship week. Well, the 4 Dallas/Houston shows that featured EVERY WC corps over 2 nights has been replaced by 1 ToC show.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Jeff, if you are trying to decide between going to two different shows and all other things considered equal one has 3 top 12 corps and 5 non finalists, and the other has 5 top 12 corps and 3 non finalists, which will you go to? My guess would be the second. A show with the top 8 from the previous year will draw a bigger crowd than a "standard" line up. Count on it. This is no different than the eliete "top 12" that's been basically doing forever what the TOC shows do just on a different scale. Every "finals" show involving top 12 over the years or involving ANY kind of prelims finals set up has "excluded" those who didn't make it in. You can say all you want that it's different because the line up is decided differently but is it really? There are only a handful of corps over the years that have broken into finals other than the "regulars", so what's the difference in the concept or ideology? To add to that, there have been times over the years where I DON'T go to a local show (and certainly didn't travel more than 30 or so minutes out-of-town) because there were two Finalist corps and 7 or 8 non-finalist corps. For me personally it's hard to justify the gas or ticket expense just to see a few high performing corps and a lot of lower performing corps. With the advent of the Fan Network years ago, I'd MUCH rather buy their season pass, stay home, and watch bigger shows online rather than pay the same price of a years subscription (or more, depending on the show) in tickets alone for my family and I. Conversely, I've traveled pretty far to see a show with 5 or 6 Top 12 corps and 3 or 4 non-finalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Well, the 4 Dallas/Houston shows that featured EVERY WC corps over 2 nights has been replaced by 1 ToC show.. In that case that's unfortunate. Arguably, though, the Top 8 corps were not at the same show/same night right? So perhaps for some fans this is a better show since it features all of the top corps for only one ticket price instead of two. Over the years I've come to realize that my enjoyment of drum corps is ALL about perception. I can chose to look at thinks in a disappointed, negatively critical mindset or I can embrace what I like and concentrate less on what I don't. I think either side of this argument is totally valid, but I tend to look at the positive more than the negative in this case. I do concede that if I lived in the Dallas or Houston area I might think different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Not for me. I now have to travel 3+ hours if I want to see all the WC corps. Something I have neither the time or the money to do anymore. And I'm also willing to bet that the ticket price for that one ToC show to watch the "Elite 8" (4 of which I could give a rip about watching) is going to be close to the same range as the price I paid to watch 23+ corps. Edited January 25, 2011 by skajerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 except not every fan can get to those.And I can guarantee you at g8 shows, the other 15 corps won't be mentioned a bit. So how are you going to grow the activity focusing on solely 8 corps? oh wait, you wont. and promoting the best of the best has been their mantra for years now......working great aint it? While it's easy to be jaded/cynical when it comes to policies we don't agree with, I think it can be argued that having shows that showcase the best of the best will mean a MUCH higher quality show from top to bottom than a more 'balanced' show with two Top 6, three 12-6, and 7 non-finalists placing corps. The crowd will more than likely be more enthusiastic and that type of show hype/atmosphere tends to be infectious. I don't think it's crazy to theorize that a newbie going to a showcase of the best of the best could potentially get so caught up in the moment that they explore the activity further (buying souvies or recordings, going to other smaller shows, etc). This is of course speculation on both of our parts, and to be fair I think it's WAY to early to either write-off the idea as bad for interest building or a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Not for me. I now have to travel 3+ hours if I want to see all the WC corps. Something I have neither the time or the money to do anymore. And I'm also willing to bet that the ticket price for that one ToC show to watch the "Elite 8" (4 of which I could give a rip about watching) is going to be close to the same range as the price I paid to watch 23+ corps. Ok. I bolded the key words in your post. Obviously what is good/bad for you may not ring true with the majority (a concept that is truly lost on many: not that I'm trying to call you out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Noted. But I also know I'm not the only one in the Houston area that feels that way. And that includes some former members of one of the "Elite 8" who are now band directors and/or band techs in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I think that's the key. DCI has worked itself pretty well into a corner as a very niche organization. I mean, banning content from that certain website, only advertising on it's own website, or in band rooms across the country. I wouldn't mind seeing a DCI billboard, or a commercial before a big regional or Finals. Just show the normal public that hey, these kids are out here, and they do some pretty awesome stuff. I mean, look at how popular that viral video of the Japanese drill team became? We all do the same thing, just while playing the same time, and with usually better visual control. Why can't that be DCI? ok, we gotta stop agreeing here. People will start to worry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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