Did you?

[charlie1223]

I can appreciate the way you argue things as well. You will take into account other people's points of view when in a discussion. Some people that are fans of anything goes don't.

The people who are a fan of anything goes feel the need to defend their position. If they are really a fan of anything goes then the fact that they would be "for" synths and electronics means they can just as easily not care if they were in, or out. After all it is "anything goes".

I'm lucky in that my preference for sound isn't as passionate as yours, less trouble for me! lol! But all that means is that I'm more willing to listen to people who are more "stubborn" (for lack of a better term) with their position on electronics, voice, synth etc. There does need to be some appeasement based on how much of the fan base that idea describes.

I'm all about innovation, creativity, variety and all that stuff, but if DCI is doing those things that I love but its hurting the majority of fans... thats not good (the only way to crub a lot of debate on here is to do market research) I don't see a lot of people complaining about their Soda varieties and how that's changed over the years... could be because those soft drink companies KNOW the market, and know what people want and expect from a soft drink.

Give and take, give and take, its all a meticulous balance.

Balance, Variety, Research.

Edited February 5, 2011 by charlie1223

[spirit7698]

I got into it because I was into drumming since I was 8, even though I was not taught any kind of technique or how to read music until my first drum corps camp when I was in 10th grade. It used to come on PBS 3 or 4 times a year. The first year I saw was 89. I thought it was college bands ( Duke Blue Devils, Virginia Cavaliers, etc ) and man they looked so precise. Cavaliers and SCV's drum line got me hooked before I even had a clues of what this thing was. Seeing it on PBA multiple times a year then a Marine recruiter who marched C.M.C.C Warriors said " hey there is a group close to you. Suncoast Sound. "

Now looking at what is going on now compared to then.

Economics with fuel and the cost for school band programs to get a bus to take kids to a show.

We used to play street football/basket ball or ride bikes every single day after school and church. Literally everyday..

I was in Boy Scouts ( usually based in Bapist and Epescipal churches )for only a month but was in Royal Rangers ( bassed in Assembly of God churches/same as boy scouts ) for 2 years and the majority of kids in all 8 or 9 of the neighborhoods I lived in from Columbia, South Carolina to Tampa, Fl. were in boy/girl scout type community organizations ( outdoors, camping, working towards a goal or badge/uniform ). I bet if you researched it the percentage of kids involved with scouts, now vs. then, then would be a higher percentage.

When I was 5 or 6 most of the churches ( in African American communities anyway in the South ) always had a full choir every sunday now many only have a choir every other sunday and a band and a hand ful of singers on opposite sundays ( means not as much participation now vs. then in some cases ).

There was only Nintendo, Sega and Neo Geo and most people only had one t.v. in the house so mom and dad said " go and play we wanna watch t.v. ".

There were only what 40 or 50 cable channels and maybe 200 satellite channels.

Jr high schools still had football teams ( in Florida anyway ) which meant Jr. high marching band for all football games and not just one local parade.

The fees for my first year at Suncoast were around $ 500 ( I think ) including shoes, uni parts, etc.

Many of the old folks who were our bingo grand moms/grand pas ( who in their day probably had more of a tight nit community then we in 93 did when they were kids ) have passed on.

We had uniform inspections. I remember at Spirit going to perform at VFW's and they fed us afterwards. This was in the mid to late 90's folks not the 70's.

We did a lot of community performances which I am sure helped out with sponsorship and non drum corps people seeing us by mistake.

We did tag days where we went out in uniform at local grocery stores and took donations and played and let me tell you about 95 percent of the people said " what is drum corps " even though they lived down the street from the corps hall long before the corps was ever there.

I am sure there are so many other cultural things that have changed to continue adding to the list.

Edited February 5, 2011 by spirit7698

[Piper]

Sometimes I wonder if people seek change just for the sake of change which usually leads in only one of two directions. If it works you'll go home happy and sleep well. If it doesn't you'll probably feel like a one legged man in a butt kickin' contest. It's always a risky venture. The Bridgemen with their long yellow coats (which eventually worked) and the Cavaliers with the clown on the field (which didn't) come to mind. It's Drum Corps version of a crap shoot.

[FHdork]

<So what if they're not acoustic? Their sound can be shaped and molded in the same way a trumpet/tuba/whatever's sound can. >

Not even remotely true...there is no one monitoring a dial, the turning of which will allow the tubas to project and create proper balance from the back side line, which is where most drill designers want them to stand for 99% of the show (Bluecoats excepted...) - actually, 99% of drill designers want the tubas to be in the tunnel for the whole show...anywhere actually, as long as no one will ever see them -

But back to the point: acoustic instruments require the human body to change...to find a way to create all the sounds and volumes necessary for musical expression. Amplified instruments - ESPECIALLY those that are designed from the start to be amplified (electric guitars...you, those solid body things that sound like a rubber band being twanged between your fingers when the electricity is off...) require nothing from the player in regards to volume and projection. That job is laid off onto Mr. Edison.

Acoustic instruments do not blend well with amplified ones. Corps are finding it troublesome, balancing amplified pits with the acoustic percussion and brass. They get it right for stadium X, then travel to stadium Y and find that the audience in the catbird seat is hearing little else OTHER than pit (so aptly named when that kind of 'death by xylophone and suspended cymbal' is your experience of a $50 drum corps show...).

But that trouble with pits is fixable - good corps seem to find a way to fix as they go. I believe it's because the instruments themselves are acoustic...the sound is human made...and simply made louder by the amps. Guitars, electric basses, synthesizers...these instruments don't exist without power. They do not balance well with the acoustic ones.

[Stu]

Amplified instruments - ESPECIALLY those that are designed from the start to be amplified (electric guitars...you, those solid body things that sound like a rubber band being twanged between your fingers when the electricity is off...) require nothing from the player in regards to volume and projection. That job is laid off onto Mr. Edison.

Acoustic instruments do not blend well with amplified ones.

Guitars, electric basses, synthesizers...these instruments don't exist without power.

I am not a fan of synths and other electronics in drum corps, but I am a fan of accuracy and that is where some attention needs to be give to your post:

a) Guitars can be played p - f no mater if they are amplified or not, and most if not all synth keyboards are touch sensitive p - f.

b) Try telling bands like Blood Sweat and Tears, Tower of Power, and Here Come the Mummies that electric guitars, electric keyboards, and amplified voice do not blend well with acoustic horns.

c) Electric instruments do not work well without power (but they do still exist), and they can be ruined very easily in rain situations (this is the Main reason that I am personally against them in DCI)

Edited February 5, 2011 by Stu

[BRASSO]

b) Try telling bands like Blood Sweat and Tears, Tower of Power, and Here Come the Mummies that electric guitars, electric keyboards, and amplified voice do not blend well with acoustic horns.

I will. Once I see BST, TOP, and HCM do their show on a football field with a visual composed of marching and running at velocities that'll make your head spin.

[luvs me sum mello!]

I came to DCI right when Synths and props were becoming very popular in HS marching band.

I didn't love DCI because it didn't have those things. I loved it because it was worlds better and more entertaining because of their abilities as performers, not because of props/synths.

[Hrothgar15]

Acoustic instruments do not blend well with amplified ones.

OK, I was with you until there. My favorite modern bands who play popular music combine acoustic guitar, electric guitar, bass guitar, synth and drum set with strings, trumpet, and horn. Balance is almost never an issue, even at live performances, and the "acoustic" instruments are indeed amplified. Here's a pretty representative example from Camera Obscura, in which the strings trade off with the electric guitar call-and-response during the refrain.

[FHdork]

<Guitars can be played p - f no mater if they are amplified or not, and most if not all synth keyboards are touch sensitive p - f.

b) Try telling bands like Blood Sweat and Tears, Tower of Power, and Here Come the Mummies that electric guitars, electric keyboards, and amplified voice do not blend well with acoustic horns.>

To Stu and Hrothgar - bands like BST amplify everyone - trumpet, drums - heck, I've seen shows where the drum set needed 9 or 10 different mics -

Drum corps uses acoustic, unamplified instruments. The task of blending them with electrically driven ones is (imo, of course) a fundamentally flawed task -

[Stu]

I will. Once I see BST, TOP, and HCM do their show on a football field with a visual composed of marching and running at velocities that'll make your head spin.

To Stu and Hrothgar - bands like BST amplify everyone - trumpet, drums - heck, I've seen shows where the drum set needed 9 or 10 different mics -

Drum corps uses acoustic, unamplified instruments. The task of blending them with electrically driven ones is (imo, of course) a fundamentally flawed task -

Brasso and FHdork: So, you are telling us that if Blood Sweat and Tears, Tower of Power, and Here Come the Mummies had 60-70 Brass players, 15-20 drummers, and just 1 electric guitar, 1 electric bass guitar, and 1 electric keyboard, that the brass and drums would have to amplified with microphones to be heard because the 3 lonely instruments would over power the 90 Brass and Drums? That would tell me that the Brass players and Drummers are way to weak and should be fired!!!

Edited February 5, 2011 by Stu