Did you?

[Jeff Ream]

You need research as a base. Then once you've done your research it can be even easier to "think" outside the box and even be more creative. Doing market research isn't about find the common denominator and making a show that is base just please everyone. It's just about knowing the people you are performing for, understanding their expectations and then you can either, meet, exceed or create new ones based on your research.

People aren't going to be so specific in what they want in a show, even I don't really know what I like about some shows, but I can give a general idea to DCI what I like, what I don't like, my expectations, how open I am to creativity and innovation. It's a just a place to start.

And honestly how hard is it for DCI to get a survey to highschool kids, college kids, adults, old people and the like to just get data...

it's called their customer database. if you have purchased something from DCI, they should be able to contact you and do some research.

or, set it up on the site...one vote per email address. I mean they set up vote for your favorite show stuff all the time

[FHdork]

Thanks Terri...you get it...

Stu...your points seem to make sense...except it IS possible for one amplified guitar or synthesizer to blow 70 brass and 30 percussion off the field. In fact...I heard some of that last summer. So your seemingly logic filled posts are running up against the reality -

[Jeff Ream]

Listen, I'm an open minded person. I don't feel that people's opinions should define them forever because over time opinions can change and we should let people change their opinions as they encounter new information and ideas.

The same can be said about DCI. If they even bothered doing market research and found that the addition of synthesizers was hurting the base or a majority of fans, or if they found that synths directly were the cause of DCI's troubles... then it would only be logical that they either A. repeal the rule or B. corps should just stop using synthesizers without repealing the rule. It's just LOGICAL to me. But without some hard evidence about the makeup of the DCI audience then its hard to really make any kind of solid or defensible decisions.

Without having this market research corps should just think about being as diverse as possible. And implementing as much variety on the field as possible, from design, to music, to instrumentation. This is the safety net DCI can use until they get their act together and do some research.

this is drum corps. there is no logic in drum corps

[Jeff Ream]

But, did they have 70 horns and 20 drummers?

no. but yet we have issues hearing 70 horns with amps.

[Jeff Ream]

Marketing and Selling to marching bands "IS" the bottom line for Yamaha, Pearl Adams, King, Jupiter, Mapex, etc... That was the reason we had a push to include Bb in DCI; the sponsoring companies can market instruments used by corps' to marching bands and make profits. And if it was not for the sponsoring companies there would be no DCI!! If you believe otherwise you are in la-la land!!! Now I am not a fan of electronics in DCI, but I am a fan of it surviving in some form. So, if company XYZ wants to pour in a plethora of support to keep DCI solvent, and company XYZ wants DCI to allow the use of their Electronic Thunder-Snow Sound Machine, I am all for that!!!! It is about money, marketing, and survival folks; nothing more. However, some of you have indicated that you would rather the activity DIE than change; yeah, that is looking out for the best interest of the kids alright!!!

it's not keeping DCI solvent, because only a handful of the corps get the super deals

[Stu]

it's not keeping DCI solvent, because only a handful of the corps get the super deals

So when I look at the DCI website, or a show program, and I see the logos of Sony, FJM, Hard Rock Café, Yamaha, Pearl, DeMoulin, Stanbury, King, etc... DCI is providing this service for what..., Love?

Edited February 6, 2011 by Stu

[Stu]

Stu...your points seem to make sense...except it IS possible for one amplified guitar or synthesizer to blow 70 brass and 30 percussion off the field. In fact...I heard some of that last summer. So your seemingly logic filled posts are running up against the reality -

no. but yet we have issues hearing 70 horns with amps.

Of course there can be electronic instrument sound problems created by an over zealous, or more likely under qualified, sound engineer pumping way too much volume through a stack of amplifiers. But that does "not" mean 70 acoustic horns and 20 acoustic drums cannot be musically balanced with electronic instruments. (By the way Jeff, I do not think you have answered my question concerning the Yamaha and Roland links I posted.)

[garfield]

On the issue of market research, do we all remember that Vaticinate did a research project at the end of last year regarding attendance in 2010? It cross-referenced the finals attendee list from 2009 with 2010, and questioned those who did not return in 2010 on WHY they did not return.

Those results have not been released (to my knowledge) by DCI, but if they are released and they show that electronics is one of the two or three top reasons that those fans did not return in 2010, would that be proof enough that electronics have driven away fans?

Then, of course, as a cross reference the list should be processed to identify the new fans in 2010, and ask them if electronics was one of the top 2 or 3 reasons they decided to attend finals week in 2010. If electronics was NOT among the top 2 or 3 reasons, would that be proof that electronics have not attracted fans?

Or would those supporting electronics simply claim that Vaticinate simply asked the wrong people?

[garfield]

I hate constructing polls so here it is...

I contend young people who came to DCI over the past 10-15 years from the marching band world, where guitars and synths and amps and vocals are now the norm in a show, don't see these additions to drum corps as a problem.

I also contend, if you came to drum corps BECAUSE it was not High School Marching Band, you are more apt to hold these changes with a certain amount of angst.

Most likely overgeneralizing, par usual. But, I am sure those who blur the lines will jump up and say, "Nada."

There is one piece of recent research that may contain a few hints to the answer to this question: Project Persona, where 2833 World Class marchers in the 2010 season were invited to take an on-line survey of their views of drum corps. 42% (1191) completed the survey, where 56% of them came from other drum corps experience, 44% were first-time participants, and 89% previously participated in a high school marching band program.

On the questions of:

"The traditions of drum corps are important", 34% agree and 47% strongly agree (81% total)

"I enjoy listening to and watching audio/video of historical corps performances" (note: not specifically pre-electronics shows), 29% agree and 50% strongly agree (79% total)

"Drum corps should be more reflective of marching band", 30% disagree and 50% strongly disagree (80% total)

"The experience of being in a drum corps is more important than the educational aspects", 32% agree and 24% strongly agree (56% total)

Yes, there are holes in the correlation to the OP's question, but if adding A&E makes drum corps more "band-like" it seems apparent that 80% of 2010 CMM's don't think that DCI should do it.

If the results of Vaticinate's 2010 fan attendance study suggest electronics is a reason that fans stayed away in 2010, then it seems that "being more band-like" is not the direction that DCI should go if it wants to attract MM's or retain fans.

Edited February 6, 2011 by garfield

[perc2100]

I hate constructing polls so here it is...

I contend young people who came to DCI over the past 10-15 years from the marching band world, where guitars and synths and amps and vocals are now the norm in a show, don't see these additions to drum corps as a problem.

I also contend, if you came to drum corps BECAUSE it was not High School Marching Band, you are more apt to hold these changes with a certain amount of angst.

Most likely overgeneralizing, par usual. But, I am sure those who blur the lines will jump up and say, "Nada."

I came to DCI in 1991, marching in 97 & aging-out in 98 (before electronics, synths, amps, amped vocals, any-key brass, more than 128 members, etc). When things changed not long after I aged-out, I had a bit of angst and what I thought, at the time, was DCI changing things that made drum corps the unique experience that I discovered, became passionate about, and then became an alumni of. Then from 2000 - 2003 I stopped following drum corps almost completely. I still had friends marching or teaching (and I taught a little bit), so I checked in to see scores and to keep up with people. I only started following drum corps more because I changed jobs from teaching middle school to high school, and wanted to check in and see the latest trends. It was a pretty cool experience, almost like 'rediscovering' DCI. Instead of putting on the critical/jaded hat and looking for things that annoyed me, I put on the enthusiastic hat and looked for the exciting stuff. I realized quickly that while there are plenty of things I dislike/disagree with, there are plenty more that I really liked. I started going to the local shows, and jumped on the Fan Network bandwagon when it first started and haven't turned back. For the first time in 15 years this past season I bought the Finals DVD's, and I honestly think that right now I like drum corps almost/as much as I did in the early 90's. I still hold those late 80's/early 90's show in high regarding from a sentimental standpoint, but I know that the activity has changed and stuff happening now is just as great/exciting. I realized that the things that I truly hold dear about drum corps have little to do with the show designs on the field, and a lot more to do with the stuff that happens on the practice field, on the bus, in the lot before & after shows, on free-days, at banquets, etc. Almost all of my cherished drum corps memories took place off of the performance field, and I remembered that what truly makes drum corps unique from marching band is the brother/sisterhood of being a part of a corps.

So I guess I am one who says "nada" in regards to be coming to drum corps 20 years ago but not minding electronics. While I understand people not liking that stuff due to preferential reasons, I think the stubborn attitude of trying to force the activity to conform to a very narrow idealistic 'format' is a discredit to all of the other great things corps are doing. I'm reminded of my marching days when alumni from the 70's would talk about how they couldn't get into tonal bass drums, grounded pits, snares with kevlar heads, etc: I know that many people don't like to see change, but it happens regardless of what we think/want and we can either ignore the stuff we dislike and embrace the aspects we like, or ignore the positives and complain about the stuff we disapprove of.