CrownStarr Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 and yes some concert bass sound is borderline thunderous goo of it's own People really mic their concert bass drums? That seems like the epitome of overkill - why on earth would you want to mic what's probably the loudest instrument on the field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 People really mic their concert bass drums? That seems like the epitome of overkill - why on earth would you want to mic what's probably the loudest instrument on the field? I've heard it done before, sometimes with internal mic'ing in order to get a big, sonic-esque boom sound (this was before synths). I personally think it's a pretty awesome effect, but the drum has to be tuned and mic'ed in such a way to add to the (super) low-end impact and not become to muddy/washy. I would guess now this is done far more often via electronics: an effect used A LOT in WGI. Not many corps mic'ed the concert bass that I remember, but there were a few that created what I thought was an awesome effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Technically we were told that corps could use smaller pits IF THEY WANTED TO: not so much a cause and effect type thing, although I can understand why people would think that way. I can't imagine many people thought larger World Class corps would cut down on their front ensembles, due to the orchestration issues. It's a possibility, and one that made/makes sense in a theoretical sense from the standpoint of a)less pitsters = more brass/drumline/guard, b)less keyboard equipment to buy & maintain. Realistically, though, that argument is/probably was more of an afterthought than a main driving point. well, IMO, the wording used was far less explicit than you used. The way you say it backs up what they did. The way they said it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Ha; no doubt! I bet that was, at the very least, entertaining to watch unfold (from a safe distance). too far away, couldn't hear what it was about. didn't find out til later. I was waiting for someone to kick dirt That's a good point, and I think that corps probably do that when they do their pre-show stuff. I think that drum corps shows, though, are so much more dynamic than WGI shows it's harder to get a good balance check w/out a LOT of pre-show programming. Plus, to be honest most of the WGI pre-show checks are to make sure everything is working, not so much balanced. If a component is too quiet in the sound check adjustments are made, but it's rare to hear something seemingly too loud/adjusted in a pre-show sound check. fewer corps it seemed did the preshow stuff last year, or if they had any, it seemed shorter than the year before. yet in WGI, It seems more units are doing preshow stuff, even just mood enhancing sounds, and they still find time for tests...and their total window is shorter. And here-in lies the problem. If everyone is 'balanced' (or, arguably unbalanced) the same, then there isn't much room for a judge to nail someone. There was a big debate at a WGI Regional last year I was at, where instructors were arguing with one of the judges who didn't like a specific tuning. The judge 'nailed' groups whose snare lines were tuned low and read 'gray'/muddy because he didn't like that tuning. Unfortunately for him, the majority of groups that day (it was a prelims show) tuned their snares that way, and he was basically told to ignore that bias for the night show. You can't really nail all 12 groups in Finals, or even 10 out of 12, for balance problems if they all are generally balanced the same way. The current musical balance trend is pretty prevalent in the activity at the moment, and until a group comes out with perfect balance and sets that new standard (and is credited/rewarded by judges), I don't see anything changing. I do think as electronics companies design soundboards with the capabilities of remote eq'ing, things will (continue to) improve and I wouldn't be surprised if the better corps come closer to "perfect" balance. again, I'm far from sold. 6 years and many changes, and it's still not getting that much better except for equipment failures all together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 you sure as heck can. There's a difference between snare tuning and out of balance amplified sound. If the snares were tuned out of balance with themselves, than they should have got dinged. If they were all tuned a like, but just lower than normal, the judge was a d-bag, and was probably an old brass judge for Pioneer. Until you penalize mediocrity, it will never get better. yeah, amps balance is far from different than snare tuning. hope Mr. Muddy didnt judge cavies on the mylar last summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I've heard it done before, sometimes with internal mic'ing in order to get a big, sonic-esque boom sound (this was before synths). I personally think it's a pretty awesome effect, but the drum has to be tuned and mic'ed in such a way to add to the (super) low-end impact and not become to muddy/washy. I would guess now this is done far more often via electronics: an effect used A LOT in WGI. Not many corps mic'ed the concert bass that I remember, but there were a few that created what I thought was an awesome effect. really it doesnt seem an issue within WGI, or in an outdoor stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The marimba section is a section that gets miked but its not the only section. The timpani, traps, and vibes also get mikes. The acoustic pit is easily heard in recordings because the microphones were at the field level... live, it was much harder to hear. I wouldn't say "much" harder. Of course, instruments in the pit staging area benefit from proximity effect on recordings, giving them a different balance from what you hear live (i.e. seated farther away). I also wouldn't say that recording mics are necessarily at "field level". Today's recordings are made with many (or all) mics on tall stands. Frankly, amplifying the pit made the front ensemble colors more palatable to my ears when balanced correctly). Before, the high frequencies of each instrument are the only things heard. The timpani outdoors sounds as tinny as a tin can unless you mic its lower frequencies. Every instrument sounds different at the greater distances and altitudes that characterize drum corps viewing conditions, as opposed to a concert situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Once again someone trying to drive a wedge between the generations. R u aware that everyone who plays baseball from T-ball to AAA baseball use an aluminum bat? However if u want to play in the Major Leagues u will learn to use a wooden bat. One will have to learn that skill or they will not play. the Players need to change. Baseball is not going to change to aluminum bats just because some players cry that it is unfair for them to have to change from aluminum bats to wood. Right, wrong or indifferent. Baseball respect and embrace their long traditions. Unlike DCI. Metal bats stop at NCAA/NAIA. Minor League Baseball is wooden bat onlly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 (edited) :) Edited February 17, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I wouldn't say "much" harder. Of course, instruments in the pit staging area benefit from proximity effect on recordings, giving them a different balance from what you hear live (i.e. seated farther away). I also wouldn't say that recording mics are necessarily at "field level". Today's recordings are made with many (or all) mics on tall stands. Every instrument sounds different at the greater distances and altitudes that characterize drum corps viewing conditions, as opposed to a concert situation. and whether the marimba keys were frozen before playing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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