College Bands Louder? What?!?!

[Mello Dude]

> any college band

Standing in an arc, point blank, and it's loud as all heck. Now, step back 30-40 yards.....

[BozzlyB]

In case anyone was wondering about notes and frequency I pulled this down :

Frequencies for equal-tempered scale

This table created using A4 = 440 Hz

Speed of sound = 345 m/s = 1130 ft/s = 770 miles/hr

("Middle C" is C4 )

Note Frequency (Hz) Wavelength (cm)

C0 16.35 2100.

C#0/Db0 17.32 1990.

D0 18.35 1870.

D#0/Eb0 19.45 1770.

E0 20.60 1670.

F0 21.83 1580.

F#0/Gb0 23.12 1490.

G0 24.50 1400.

G#0/Ab0 25.96 1320.

A0 27.50 1250.

A#0/Bb0 29.14 1180.

B0 30.87 1110.

C1 32.70 1050.

C#1/Db1 34.65 996.

D1 36.71 940.

D#1/Eb1 38.89 887.

E1 41.20 837.

F1 43.65 790.

F#1/Gb1 46.25 746.

G1 49.00 704.

G#1/Ab1 51.91 665.

A1 55.00 627.

A#1/Bb1 58.27 592.

B1 61.74 559.

C2 65.41 527.

C#2/Db2 69.30 498.

D2 73.42 470.

D#2/Eb2 77.78 444.

E2 82.41 419.

F2 87.31 395.

F#2/Gb2 92.50 373.

G2 98.00 352.

G#2/Ab2 103.83 332.

A2 110.00 314.

A#2/Bb2 116.54 296.

B2 123.47 279.

C3 130.81 264.

C#3/Db3 138.59 249.

D3 146.83 235.

D#3/Eb3 155.56 222.

E3 164.81 209.

F3 174.61 198.

F#3/Gb3 185.00 186.

G3 196.00 176.

G#3/Ab3 207.65 166.

A3 220.00 157.

A#3/Bb3 233.08 148.

B3 246.94 140.

C4 261.63 132.

C#4/Db4 277.18 124.

D4 293.66 117.

D#4/Eb4 311.13 111.

E4 329.63 105.

F4 349.23 98.8

F#4/Gb4 369.99 93.2

G4 392.00 88.0

G#4/Ab4 415.30 83.1

A4 440.00 78.4

A#4/Bb4 466.16 74.0

B4 493.88 69.9

C5 523.25 65.9

C#5/Db5 554.37 62.2

D5 587.33 58.7

D#5/Eb5 622.25 55.4

E5 659.26 52.3

F5 698.46 49.4

F#5/Gb5 739.99 46.6

G5 783.99 44.0

G#5/Ab5 830.61 41.5

A5 880.00 39.2

A#5/Bb5 932.33 37.0

B5 987.77 34.9

C6 1046.50 33.0

C#6/Db6 1108.73 31.1

D6 1174.66 29.4

D#6/Eb6 1244.51 27.7

E6 1318.51 26.2

F6 1396.91 24.7

F#6/Gb6 1479.98 23.3

G6 1567.98 22.0

G#6/Ab6 1661.22 20.8

A6 1760.00 19.6

A#6/Bb6 1864.66 18.5

B6 1975.53 17.5

C7 2093.00 16.5

C#7/Db7 2217.46 15.6

D7 2349.32 14.7

D#7/Eb7 2489.02 13.9

E7 2637.02 13.1

F7 2793.83 12.3

F#7/Gb7 2959.96 11.7

G7 3135.96 11.0

G#7/Ab7 3322.44 10.4

A7 3520.00 9.8

A#7/Bb7 3729.31 9.3

B7 3951.07 8.7

C8 4186.01 8.2

C#8/Db8 4434.92 7.8

D8 4698.64 7.3

D#8/Eb8 4978.03 6.9

(To convert lengths in cm to inches, divide by 2.54)

More information on the equal tempered scale

Equations used for this table

Questions/Comments to: suits@mtu.edu

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Thanks for the anyurism, gonna be walking around with a twitchy right eye for bout a week now.

[BozzlyB]

Physics fact: “Loudness” is a measure of the energy in the waveform.

Physics fact: Playing “in tune” does nothing to add to the energy.

Human fact: The human ear and the interpretive mechanisms of the brain do not measure loudness in the same way a physicist would. Possibly, with some training, a human could accurately perceive differences in loudness, but a quantitative, accurate measure will be limited by the acoustic characteristics of the ear, including the ear canal and the sound pressure to neural impulse translation mechanisms of the cochlea.

Music fact: Read Stu’s post. It is possible to arrange a piece to produce comparatively more energy within the range of frequencies in which the human ear is most efficient in translating the sounds into neural signals, thus making one arrangement seem louder than another, given the same instrumentation and the same musicians. And there are certainly differences in the efficiency of sound production between different instruments (the ratio of energy input to the instrument versus energy output), even between different models of the same instrument, adding even more variables to that set that affects loudness.

Everything else is subjective, but not science.

Is this why G bugle hornlines sounded WAY louder but with (what most would consider) less quality?

[corpsband]

You would post that bullocks on this thread.

lol. foot -- meet speeding bullet.

(it's bollocks)

((still lol'ing ))

[Bruckner8]

Different Types of Hornline Loud:

1) Loud that makes you wince (BD and Scouts; treble turned up)

2) Loud that you can feel (Crown, Bloo, Phantom, Cavies, Boston, SCV, Stars, Knights, Cadets; different approaches to "pyramid of sound", in order from "most bottom," recently. Madison is moving to this group, lol.)

3) Loud that makes you sad (everyone else; severe intonation and/or balance problems negating the impact of loud, even if it IS loud. IOW, who cares about loud if it doesn't sound pleasing?)

[audiodb]

So many myths, so little time.

1. Humans do not play perfectly in tune with one another.

2. Even if they did....the sound of a brass instrument is not a single frequency, but a combination of the fundamental pitch and various overtones that give it a unique tone quality. And humans do not produce perfectly matched tone quality with one another.

3. Even if they did....the only reason the whole would even equal the sum of the parts would be if all sound waves, of all frequencies, from the 80 different locations of each brass player, arrived at the listener's ear(s) perfectly in phase.

[Piper]

So many myths, so little time.

1. Humans do not play perfectly in tune with one another.

2. Even if they did....the sound of a brass instrument is not a single frequency, but a combination of the fundamental pitch and various overtones that give it a unique tone quality. And humans do not produce perfectly matched tone quality with one another.

3. Even if they did....the only reason the whole would even equal the sum of the parts would be if all sound waves, of all frequencies, from the 80 different locations of each brass player, arrived at the listener's ear(s) perfectly in phase.

I'll stick my neck out here and agree with you more or less. Having worked in the electronics field for most of my life, I would assume that if both you and I played a straight middle C on a sop, the waveforms on an ocsilloscope would be different because of facial structure, mouthpiece etc., but the frequency of the waveform should be the same. If not, then the two horns are not in sync (or in tune) with each other. Out of phase would be another way of putting it.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Piper

[Stu]

I suggest everyone read through http://www.sound-physics.com/ because it will answer all questions about sound amplitude, sound wave enhancement, sound wave cancellation, and why the human ear perceives a few (focused and in tune) instruments as having more intensity than many (unfocused and out of tune) instruments.

[Bruckner8]

So many myths, so little time.

1. Humans do not play perfectly in tune with one another.

2. Even if they did....the sound of a brass instrument is not a single frequency, but a combination of the fundamental pitch and various overtones that give it a unique tone quality. And humans do not produce perfectly matched tone quality with one another.

3. Even if they did....the only reason the whole would even equal the sum of the parts would be if all sound waves, of all frequencies, from the 80 different locations of each brass player, arrived at the listener's ear(s) perfectly in phase.

Only because you used the term "perfect," because we can't even measure it perfectly, even with all that fancy recording equipment you use (ie, your Mac, lol)

The loudest drum corps all try to achieve 1, 2, and 3 above, with varying degrees of success. These degrees are delineated on the judges sheet, to be judged by imperfect humans, using a sheet created by imperfect humans, to measure imperfect human performers playing imperfectly-made instruments, provided by imperfectly-run, greedy corporations, made up of imperfect employees trying to provide for their imperfect families...wake me up when it gets back to the Perfect God.

[garfield]

> any college band

JUST O-M-G!