emc2 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 In order for a new Corps to reach the top 3, some Corps in that top 3 is likely going to have to have their score go down from the previous year. And perhaps more than one Corps. It's almost inconceivable to see how a new Corps can secure a top 3 spot without this occuring. So whether it is show design or execution, some 1 or 2 Corps are going to have scoring slide. Not unless the judges are prepared to have 3 or 4 Corps in the 98-99 point range on Finals Night. And I don't see much chance of this happening any time soon. I guess the underlining question is which corp in the FAB8 will be knocked out and which corp or corps will replace them. I would think Boston would move up. Very underrated the past last three years. The clips that i have seen gives Boston a good start and sound too 2011. You also would have to give them credit for promoting new shows in the Northeast which will bring more involvement to the area and get the kids that love the Arts interested in drum corp and preform at a wold class level. (Note Boston made a change a few years ago and the hole out look has been a very positive and proactive one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I can see why you think PR might be vulnerable but honestly I've heard only good things about how the percussion section is shaping up. Though, I haven't heard much about Boston... why do you think they are vulnerable? New brass staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I guess the underlining question is which corp in the FAB8 will be knocked out and which corp or corps will replace them. I would think Boston would move up. Very underrated the past last three years. The clips that i have seen gives Boston a good start and sound too 2011. You also would have to give them credit for promoting new shows in the Northeast which will bring more involvement to the area and get the kids that love the Arts interested in drum corp and preform at a wold class level. (Note Boston made a change a few years ago and the hole out look has been a very positive and proactive one. Unless we know how strong ( or subpar ) the Guard is with Corps, and how strong ( or subpar ) the Visual Prigram will be, we really won't know much in terms of who moves up or down. DCI is primarily a visual medium now. The judging captions are skewed way more to the Visual than the Brass and/ or Percussion. For example, a solitary Guard member carries more weight in the scores than does ( for example ) a single Trumpet player, or single Snare Drummer. There are typically double the number of Brass marchers than Guard Marchers. If ( for example ) Boston has a killer Guard and Visual show lined up for this year, a soso Brass and Percussion section they'll do good this year. If they have a killer brass, percussion line, but a soso Guard and Visual show, they'll get buried. This of course can be applied to all the Corps too. The Blue Devils have this figured out brilliantly and to a T. They havn't remained unbeaten for 2 years primarily because of their brass line or percussion line. It's been done primarily on the back of their killer Guard, and creative Visual programming and execution. Edited March 18, 2011 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 We've had a couple of corps who never made the top 3 get into that elite territory in the last few years. Which corps that has never been in the top 3 will get there next? I think MAYBE Blue Stars will be the next corps to hit Top 3 (I know they were in Top 3 decades ago). But if that's the case, it won't happen for several more seasons, I think. I think they are still a ways away from Top 6 to be honest. Other than Blue Stars, I think it will be a LONG time before another 'new' corps breaks into Top 3, short of some major strides in the next few seasons from corps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I can see why you think PR might be vulnerable but honestly I've heard only good things about how the percussion section is shaping up. Though, I haven't heard much about Boston... why do you think they are vulnerable? While that is a good thing, I guess there are a few things to keep in mind: 1) it is pretty darn rare to hear BAD things during winter camps, especially from the more established corps 2) while I don't think their percussion will take a nose-dive (as some might believe), I think "good things" for PR at this point would be Top 6: ie still pretty far from Championship Caliber 3)and most important: Phantom Regiment had SIGNIFICANT issues all over the field last year. Percussion was their saving grace, meaning, if their percussion was on average w/the rest of their captions they would likely have been out of the Top 6, assuming the percussion performance not being Championship level also brought down GE Music and Music Performance. I don't think Phantom Regiment will take a downward spiral this summer, but I if think SCV or even Blue Stars or Boston have a great show next year, PR could drop a few placements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) edit: double post Edited March 18, 2011 by perc2100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Oh I don't disagree that corps *do* stumble -- I just don't agree that the only path to advancing is for a previously higher-placed corps to stumble. Example: tier 1 : corp X Y ( contenders) tier 2: corps A B C D tier 3 : corps J K L tier 4 : corps S T U V A B C D are essentially tied and only minor items separate them. In the next season J could join tier 2 without a "stumble" on the part of ABCD. In the same fashion V could join tier 3 without a stumble on the part of JKL. I also agree that corps can be pushed up in placement as a result of a stumble. Stumbles are sufficient -- just not necessary . Now we're getting somewhere. Everyone that is not tier one is MISFIRING, probably by their own admission! I admit I'm old school on this (You know, where I keep score at youth soccer games, and I expect youth in my employ to excel and be accountable.) 2010 started out with BD, Cadets and Crown as "the contenders." Then Bloo and Cavies took over Cadets and Crown. At that instant, Crown and Cadets were defined as "stumbled" for 2010. (let alone SCV and Phantom!) Now, I know the "do-gooders" and the "feel-gooders" don't want to hear words like "stumble" for such awesome shows as Cadets and Crown 2010, but when measured against EVERY TOP 3 FINISHING CORPS' GOAL (to be "in contention"), it's a stumble. Had Bloo been "merely as good" as Crown, Bloo would not have been "allowed" to beat them. (Thank you, Michael Klesch, for putting every hit in Bb) If BD, SCV, Cavies, Bloo, Cadets, Crown and Phantom all start their seasons with visions of making it back to "contention," and Blue Stars beats one of them, how can you conclude (with a straight face) that Blue Stars did it without one of them "misfiring?" It's logically possible, I grant you, that every one of those 7 COULD BE in contention in any given year. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED, NOT EVEN CLOSE. Fast-forward 3 years, and let's make a scenario: Blue Stars beats Phantom all three times, and SCV once, and stays ahead of Madison (somehow!). That's two 7th place finishes and one 6th place finish. Certainly, the signs of a competitive corps emerging! (I would never say otherwise!) Phantom Nation will be decrying "the 5 dark years of stumbling" by the Regiment, praying for a return to their former glory. You know it, and I know it. On the flip side, others will be saying "ya know, BS is pretty good!" The Madison people will be saying "But, but, but, we're the Madison Scouts! We're back in finals! We're one of the NewStars too! Where's our Top 6 finish, promised by the return of the Messiah(s)?" In a very long-term view, Crown and Bloo took up slots left by Madison and Star. Now Madison is back. Not a lot of room for Blue Stars, IMO, but I hope I'm wrong. I really do. I want to live in BooWorld, but I just can't let reality go. --------------- PS: Back in the day, it was all about the Top 6 (BD, Cavies, Madison, Cadets, PR, SCV). Star was the last new corps to "create a new slot by their own excellence," seriously pushing one of them out, causing a Top 7 if you will. This adds credence to your point, on the face of it. But do you think the 7th place finishers of those Star years felt "excellent?" Did they welcome the ascension of Star? No way. Star almost single-handedly redefined what it meant to be excellent, if you really want to get down to it. That took EXTRAORDINARY circumstance, commitment and focus, not seen since, and probably never will again. Even then, they finished 7th twice (87/88), before being "allowed" to 6th (89), and then never looked back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) . I don't think Phantom Regiment will take a downward spiral this summer, but I if think SCV or even Blue Stars or Boston have a great show next year, PR could drop a few placements. Speaking of Phantom, and the importance of the Visual and Guard, it was primarily a VISUAL move that catapulted this Corps to the Championship in 2008. Likewise, it was the VISUAL slide in 2009 ( Guard and Visual design ) that had this Corps get buried in 9th from 1st place the previous year. What do we learn from this ? Well, if you are going to have a caption slide, it had better not be in the Guard or the Visual design. Otherwise, no mattter how decent the Brass and Percussion line might be in member talent and execution, you're going to get buried on the DCI scoring sheets. Edited March 18, 2011 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Speaking of Phantom, and the importance of the Visual and Guard, it was primarily a VISUAL move that catapulted this Corps to the Championship in 2008. Likewise, it was the VISUAL slide in 2009 ( Guard and Visual design ) that had this Corps get buried in 9th from 1st place the previous year. What do we learn from this ? Well, if you are going to have a caption slide, it had better not be in the Guard or the Visual design. Otherwise, no mattter how decent the Brass and Percussion line might be in member talent and execution, you're going to get buried on the DCI scoring sheets. seeing is believing... as the saying goes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catan Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 What do we learn from this ? Well, if you are going to have a caption slide, it had better not be in the Guard or the Visual design. Otherwise, no mattter how decent the Brass and Percussion line might be in member talent and execution, you're going to get buried on the DCI scoring sheets. This is why Glassmen will stay in finals next year IMO, because they march and spin better than any other potential finalists in the 13-15 range (Academy, Colts, Troopers). That being said, I see them in 12th place again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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