charlie1223 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Cool idea -- timing nightmare! ahh... yea... forgot about that... they'll make it work! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 So you had an experience where you had trouble hearing a crappy speaker. Good for you. Doesn't change the fact that the PA speakers most corps are using are a) nowhere near as directional as a brass instrument, and b) set up in an attempt to maximize the spread of the sound throughout the stadium. I sure would like to see a video (or experience live) a speaker set up that's NOT aimed at the pressbox. Just look at the videos and point out a show where the speakers are pointed at the 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I sure would like to see a video (or experience live) a speaker set up that's NOT aimed at the pressbox. Just look at the videos and point out a show where the speakers are pointed at the 20. How about speakers that are on remote controlled turn tables.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 How about speakers that are on remote controlled turn tables.... This is your idea of "Keeping it REAL on DCP"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 This is your idea of "Keeping it REAL on DCP"? So I guess you don't like that idea... I've got plenty more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIS Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Based on going to my first drum corps show in over 30 years during 2010 my three best/worst changes are: Best: Drill design. Wow! Much more demanding, and I suspect much more fun, that "in my day". And I love the mobile drum line - no more up and down the 50. Care of marching members. One small example I saw at a pre-show practice - each member had their own water jug. In my corps we had one jug for 128 people that maybe got filled twice during the day. The Pit. Worst: Color guard - nearly everything (except not having to do high mark time for the entire drill - that is a great change). Props (well, most of them) / voiceover / narration I wouldn't know a G from a Bb from an XYZ - but I'd like to know that there really is some form of a tune being played. Too often it seemed like just a mish-mash of noise. And the moment that made me smile the most - Cavaliers exit drum cadence - silly, but it brought back some old memories. And...Madison, my all-time favorite corps (although I just about had a stroke the first time I saw them smash cymbals with rifles - I'm from the mid-70s when that was unheard of unless you did a disasterous throw - but I got over that quickly) and not because they did some throwback moves - but because they are...well....Madison. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Well, I don't know what that kind of experience that entails. But I would imagine that there is probably a big difference between writing synth/ electric instrument parts for a marching band than a drum corps. In terms of difficulty yes, but also in terms of volume... and I think the standards are generally lower for marching bands than they are for drum corps, but there are certainly marching bands out there that have high standards and can achieve them. Bottom line is you can't hid behind poor performance in drum corps, its not acceptable. I may be considered "for" electronics, amplification, synths but that definitely doesn't mean I am "for" their poor use or implementation. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And if it does, it does. what kind of experience that entails? let's see...a marching unit, on a football field, with stuff plugged in. And bands have been doing it for decades. And there is still issues in the band world. To their credit tho, if they are in a dome, they don't seem to crank the bass up to 20 like drum corps does. What gets me is bands I could see a balance issue...they aren't all brass. Woodwinds just don't project like all brass does. Yet in DCi we have bigger balance issues. You can hide behind poor performance. I witnessed it in Allentown 2 years ago when myself and many people I know complained about how cranked Crown's pit was...I mean people out on the 20's complained....and they got a 19.4 in ensemble. the judging community is afraid.,...at all levels...to really nail someone if balance is out of whack. a tenth or 2 isn't sending the real message. They've taken the control out of the pit, and now up in the stands and you can use whatever device you want to control it. Worst offender last year in Indy? the Bluecoats the night they got caught using their Iphone or Ipad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 And what's wrong with any of what you just described? (That is, aside from the snide mischaracterization of the Cavaliers' brass.) Seriously, you have two basic complaints. 1. Pit had to play more unison parts at peak dynamics. Why is that a problem? The hornline has eight to 16 people on a part for the whole show. 2. Pit had to select louder (often metallic) devices for projection at peak dynamics. Well, of course they did. Some items project better than others. Finger cymbals aren't the right choice for the big fortissimo in concert either. True. With the amplified pit, those trumpet notes can be obliterated by a front ensemble of far fewer than 70 people. Actually, to a certain extent, balance issues are "the fault of the amplification". The concept of posting PA speakers in front of a marching music ensemble and blasting them toward the press box creates a profile of widely varying (im)balances at different spectator vantage points. What seems like "balance" at the press box is only achieved at the expense of deafening imbalance down close, and a range of muddled sounds outside of the center seating sections. The directional coloration of a PA speaker is more severe than even a brass instrument....and of course, the brass instruments can compensate by changing direction or position to play to more of the audience, while the PA speaker just sits still. If you really feel that the advantages of amplification outweigh the disadvantages, that's fine. But you'd better get used to hearing complaints about imbalances, because they are inherent to the setup that corps are using. fans will stop complaining...because they'll stop going 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Ah: we've already gotten to the point where we're over-using the Charlie Sheen meme. That's like, SOOOOO last week To be honest, even more "winning" - people complaining about complainers who complain (and on and on). FWIW, I think there COULD be plenty of benefits of drum corps forums: but using the same tired arguments, complaints, sense of entitlement, etc is just plain dumb. Kind of like the lawyer who "strenuously objects" after their objection was over-ruled: object once to get your complaint on the record and then move on - beating the dead horse after the horse has decomposed. But, that's the World we live in... I used Charlie in jest. however if the comments were truly inept, I would have used bi-winning. But, the thread is still young guess what...go look on any forum of any kind: you will always have that which you complain about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 To say the use of electronics in drum corps is "perfect" is silly. It isn't, and I'm confident that people running/designing the corps know this. Afterall, they passed a rule change to make balances better from the stands. But even if the use of A&E is significantly better this year than last year there will still be individuals who personal tastes will not be satisfied. I can't control how a corps designs it's shows or what they put on the field so I just want to make sure that whatever they decide to do it is done at the HIGHEST level possible. Judges can't be lenient towards synth "malfunctions" or "over balance" as they shouldnt' be lenient towards an out of step trumpet or dirty snare licks. I believe that electronics are still not at the drum corps standard we expect they should be at (across the board and consistently), but I'm pretty sure that when they are, that electronics can continue to enhance shows for the audience in a number of different ways. time out. last year people at the box could communicate with the field. oh wait that didnt work. so Bluecoats rolled out their new toy and tried it semis night....and that was their worst balance of the week in Indy. yeah, I'm sold this too shall work justification for every change since the first speaker rolled out to a field has been shot to hell every single time. I will say this tho...at outdoor venues it has gotten better. The problem is that 5 of the biggest shows of the year are not outside. anyone see a connection there? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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