donincardona Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I think the "extra five points" system went away in DCA after the 1977 season. I'm pretty sure of that. The championship scores from 1978 on forward reflect that. fran am i right that the extra 5 points was content analysis? geeze i just can't remember. i should cause i use to go to the judges critique meetings after the show. my brain just stops on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabalumnidrummer Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Andy had it right. The extra five points was considered the 'penalty caption' (or bucket as Andy referred to it). Any corps incurring a penalty had it deducted from the five points, and the balance was added to your final score. If there was no penalty, you received the full five point 'bonus.' A questionable practice, to say the least. I remember it starting while I was still marching, but I have no idea when it was discontinued. I only vaguely recall the two juniors being at that show, but if they were, I doubt seriously that their scores, though on the same sheets and with the same judges, were mixed with the seniors. Again, I think Andy is correct, they would have made it a junior-senior division show, similar to the Dream. I cannot possibly imagine Lefty Mayer, Joe Genero, Jim Costello or Vince Bruni or any other prominent DCA figure of that day agreeing to that, church or no church! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyroo Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Andy had it right. The extra five points was considered the 'penalty caption' (or bucket as Andy referred to it). Any corps incurring a penalty had it deducted from the five points, and the balance was added to your final score. If there was no penalty, you received the full five point 'bonus.' A questionable practice, to say the least. I remember it starting while I was still marching, but I have no idea when it was discontinued. I only vaguely recall the two juniors being at that show, but if they were, I doubt seriously that their scores, though on the same sheets and with the same judges, were mixed with the seniors. Again, I think Andy is correct, they would have made it a junior-senior division show, similar to the Dream. I cannot possibly imagine Lefty Mayer, Joe Genero, Jim Costello or Vince Bruni or any other prominent DCA figure of that day agreeing to that, church or no church! John, You're correct; the scores were not mixed or merged or joined. The two junior corps competed against each other, while the seniors competed only against each other. I realize that this opens up the aforementioned argument about "same sheets, same judges," but they were handled separately. As I recall, the days of juniors and seniors competing against each other ended well before 1970 - probably even before 1960. I competed against seniors (primarily Norman Prince and Fitchburg Kingsmen) fairly often during the 1950's, but I seem to recall the practice having died out during the late Fifties - at least in New England. Let me look through the pile of "stuff" that I call my files and I'll see if I have the program book from that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navillus WP Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) so i was right my memory kinda failed me. here are the scores glen Mission Drums June 28, 1970 Boston, Massachusetts 1. 27th Lancers 74.95 2. Hurricanes 74.65 3. Boston Crusaders 73.30 4. Skyliners 72.75 5. Sunrisers (1.0 Penalty) 71.65 6. Caballeros 66.70 7. Rochester Crusaders 64.85 * Syracuse Brigadiers & Reading Buccaneers pulled out - 27th and Boston were last-minute replacements To be honest, us "kids" were told that the senior judges were going to perform the judging functions for the purposes of providing feedback from a fresh set of eyes. Despite believing we weren't going to be "scored," we took this opprtunity VERY seriously. I do remember we got fired-up to wow the fans who were very enthusiastic as wel took to the starting line, as well as the members of the senior corps (who we looked up to) who were appreciative and were really cheering us on. Many fellow-Lancers stated they felt honored to have the opportunity put on a good show for the senior corps' watching on the sidelines and siting the stands. After the show, we were thrilled that legends like Harvey Olderman and Pepe Nataro made a point of spending time in the parking lot asking questions and making comments, which made me feel like a million bucks. Edited April 14, 2011 by Navillus WP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPeashey Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 To be honest, us "kids" were told that the senior judges were going to perform the judging functions for the purposes of providing feedback from a fresh set of eyes. Despite believing we were not going to be "scored," we took this opprtunity VERY seriously. I do remember we got fired up to wow the fans who were very enthusiastic, as well as the members of the senior corps (who we looked up to) who were appreciative and were really cheering us on. Many fellow-Lancers stating they felt honored to have the opportunity put on a good show for the senior corps' watching on the sidelines and siting the stands. After the show, we were thrilled that legends like Harvey Olderman and Pepe Nataro made a point of spending time in the parking lot asking questions and making comments, which made me feel like a million bucks. This is so true and by this time, the "mystique" had not yet worn off. The fact was, until the mid 70's and the complete impact of the "new kid on the block" (DCI), junior corps kids were taught by senior corps members and in shows where both were present, the junior corps kids would rally to cheer on their "idols"... many of whom were just plain old marching members of the senior corps. Although none of us on here need this education, just in case some young 'un has wandered over from the DCI forums it bears repeating that seniors created juniors... this was done for several reasons - to create and recruit new talent for the "big" corps, to provide work for the senior members and staff and quite frankly (as one who co-founded a junior corps himself) just to prove we could do it. It was most gratifying. and even in the "modern junior corps era" be clear that many responsible for the success of DCI - Wayne Downey, Bill Howard, Don Angelica** and many, many more - learned what was good drum corps and how to do it in the ranks of the senior corps. I recently saw a program book from the 60's and the write up for Garfield Cadets (THE Cadets) listed their staff: Brass: Don Angelica, Visual: Jim Costello, Percussion: Jim Costello (I never knew that). When I saw it, I couldn't help but think that some day DCI would be wise to recognize where they came from and appreciate the all aged movement more. ** Wayne Downey - Blue Devils - Long Island Sunrisert Bill Howard - Madison Scouts - Rochester Crusaders Don Angelica - Cadets - Hawthorne Caballeros Note: I was going to include Rocco Oliverio for Anaheim Kingsmen 1972 and Salamanca Black Knights but figured many would go Salamanca who? lol besides you CA people get a little touchy every time Rocco's name is mentioned. To clear up any rumors, He never marched with Rochester Crusaders but was kind of like a corps "groupie" and hung around the corps often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Brigs probably would have pulled out Saturday or Sunday... we were in shock all that week from the 35.6 score in the show the week before... We thought we had pulled it together fairly well and were supposed to be in Erie PA 2 weeks later... I went on vacation and when I finished my vacation and arrived in Erie I was told the corps folded... I've always wondered if history would have been radically changed had I not gone on vacation and just maybe could have prevented the fold... but we'll never know. That might sound a bit presumptious of me but I was a voting member of the board and YES have a pretty big mouth. I do know that the 70 brigs are the only corps I can think of that were DESTROYED by the judges and the judges only... I have no idea what was going through their minds but a polite "you're not ready" score with us in last place as we deserved would have sufficed.... the 35 was the biggest slap in the face any perrenial finalist in DCA ever took... We were actually a fairly good corps that simply wasn't ready. we never recovered from that - despite giving it a good try in '71. And the icing on the cake - it was at their own show! (Music in Motion at MacArthur Stadium) Man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabalumnidrummer Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I recently saw a program book from the 60's and the write up for Garfield Cadets (THE Cadets) listed their staff: Brass: Don Angelica, Visual: Jim Costello, Percussion: Jim Costello (I never knew that). Yes, Tom, it was true. He preceded Les Parks at Garfied as the drum instructor. Fact is, he was also teaching both marching and drums to Hawthorne at the same time, as well as serving as director. Cos was quite a talented guy, but realized that he needed a better drum instructor for the Cabs, and so in essence he 'fired' himself and hired Les at Hawthorne so he could focus on marching and corps administration better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennTux Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Again your knowledge is greatly appreciated. So CYO Nationals and Mission Drums, although being held at the same Stadium for a number of years, were obviously 2 separate shows. Looking forward to seeing you again this weekend. However I refuse to sit to watch Cabs stage rehearsal this time. I can't afford Curt and George blowing double high As & Bs in my face anymore. Thet broke my bluetooth last week in Dundalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennTux Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Oh the dangers of sitting in the front row. LOL, one of Lancer spouses was looking for a seat and asked where we were sitting. When we said front row, she decided to sit with other people. And we had room down front with us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 so i was right my memory kinda failed me. here are the scores glen Mission Drums June 28, 1970 Boston, Massachusetts 1 27th Lancers 74.95 2 Hurricanes 74.65 3 Boston Crusaders 73.30 4 Skyliners 72.75 5 Sunrisers (1.0 Penalty) 71.65 6 Caballeros 66.70 7 Rochester Crusaders 64.85 * Syracuse Brigadiers & Reading Buccaneers pulled out 27th and Boston were last-minute replacements These scores may or may not be accurate, but what is certain is that the judges did not score these Juniors and Senior Corps against one another's performances here at Mission Drums in 1970. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.