Minimalist Footwear in Drum Corps

[ihatechewis08]

????

[CloudHype]

Nope... I would make a kid go change shoes. Pseudo science/ Marketing at work.

At the same time, I believe this trend of getting everyone to have the same gait via marching technique (how the foot rolls) is a dangerous joke.

a) You don't see it unless you are staring at the feet and are within 5 yards of a person.

b) It goes against nature and medicine. Orthotics correct gait problems, not marching technique! A marcher with a high arch will travel on the outside of his foot after heel strike. Late stage pronators (like myself) will roll towards their big toe after the heel strike, sorry Mr. Hardcore "I yell a lot" Visual Tech. That's nature, not bad technique and trying to fix that will lead to pain and/or injuries.

Problem with injuries... sometimes (more often then not) it is being out of shape. I believe a few cases is from not letting a member get the proper rest for a minor injury... Yeah Mr. Program Coordinator, I get that you just sucked it up and went out back to the field... You also marched a horn with 2 valves and about 2/3's less drill.

Sometimes, improper footwear... A kid with flat arches and over-pronates, needs a motion control/support shoe. The kid with a high arch will need a different one. Need more proof... look at some of our "What shoes should I get" threads on DCP... people will name a brand and that's it, no mention of analyzing gates and getting proper shoes. We all just think a New Balance is good for all people. I'm only talking about forward motion too, we are dealing with left to right motion in todays activity... hello cross trainers.

Edited June 11, 2011 by CloudHype

[Galen]

One of our soprano players in Kilties, who's also a martial arts instructor, wears them during rehearsals and seems to do fine with them. I don't know if I'd want to march in a pair of those though.

[Jeff Ream]

I would think the lack of ankle support they offer could cause issues especially in a higher velocity drill

[John Murray]

A change in marching technique? You mean jazz running the whole show?

[Dash Fieldpaint]

At the same time, I believe this trend of getting everyone to have the same gait via marching technique (how the foot rolls) is a dangerous joke.

a) You don't see it unless you are staring at the feet and are within 5 yards of a person.

b) It goes against nature and medicine. Orthotics correct gait problems, not marching technique! A marcher with a high arch will travel on the outside of his foot after heel strike. Late stage pronators (like myself) will roll towards their big toe after the heel strike, sorry Mr. Hardcore "I yell a lot" Visual Tech. That's nature, not bad technique and trying to fix that will lead to pain and/or injuries.

Can you elaborate a little more on this? One of my visual instructor friends had mentioned something like this to me recently, but we never really got too into the subject. He was talking about how different people move in different ways and visual instruction should take that into account, instead of having everybody do the exact same thing all time.

I was always taught the everybody needs to do the exact same thing for the sake of uniformity. What you're saying makes sense, because, while we're all human and we have all the same parts, we're all built a little differently.

My friend was talking more about the entire lower body. We weren't discussing the foot roll at all. Still, what you're talking about seems like a concept that applies to the entire lower body, feet included.

If it's too far off topic, maybe a message would do. I'm always looking for new information when it comes to visual technique.

[soccerguy315]

CloudHype with an A+ post

[CloudHype]

Can you elaborate a little more on this? One of my visual instructor friends had mentioned something like this to me recently, but we never really got too into the subject. He was talking about how different people move in different ways and visual instruction should take that into account, instead of having everybody do the exact same thing all time.

I was always taught the everybody needs to do the exact same thing for the sake of uniformity. What you're saying makes sense, because, while we're all human and we have all the same parts, we're all built a little differently.

My friend was talking more about the entire lower body. We weren't discussing the foot roll at all. Still, what you're talking about seems like a concept that applies to the entire lower body, feet included.

If it's too far off topic, maybe a message would do. I'm always looking for new information when it comes to visual technique.

I'll post a reply in a few hours, I got to go to work :-) But let's just say, I'm talking ankles down... I'll go into more detail later tonight.

[dasboot]

I personally love my Vibram fivefingers. I have two pairs, the treksports, and the Bikila LS, and soon I will be marching in the treksports, and I love them. I could see them being good for drum corps because, they are made for trail running, and are very durable. Even with them on, my roll step is still good. Of course, they should be awesome for jazz running.

[CloudHype]

Can you elaborate a little more on this? One of my visual instructor friends had mentioned something like this to me recently, but we never really got too into the subject. He was talking about how different people move in different ways and visual instruction should take that into account, instead of having everybody do the exact same thing all time.

I was always taught the everybody needs to do the exact same thing for the sake of uniformity. What you're saying makes sense, because, while we're all human and we have all the same parts, we're all built a little differently.

My friend was talking more about the entire lower body. We weren't discussing the foot roll at all. Still, what you're talking about seems like a concept that applies to the entire lower body, feet included.

If it's too far off topic, maybe a message would do. I'm always looking for new information when it comes to visual technique.

Now that I'm off work, I'll address this in a little more detail.

First lets look at basic terms I'll use, this article on Runners World will help clear up the details: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-7727-0,00.html

What I call gate correction is when instructors insist that members roll their feat a certain way. For example, I saw one corps at a clinic teach members to roll on the outside of the foot after heel strike till they get to the toes and push of the middle.

I was taught this same way of rolling the foot but I marched a different style. . . More on that in a second.

One other time I was at work ( I managed a vitamin store)... I had a college kid come in and asked for a good supplement to take because he was doing an activity called drum and bugle corps... I laughed, told him I marched/ design/ teach and we got into talking. He mention how he was having a problem with marching because his foot was rolling on the outside (much like above technique) and his instructor was throwing a fit.

These type of scenarios bug me. It's unsound and not safe, proper footwear and members in orthotics if it is a sever case, is what is needed. Correcting the foot roll through technique is asking for trouble, a corps that rolls on the outside of the foot: Turned ankles, blown out knees and you other typical under-pronation injuries. Go the other extreme, knee pain and heel problems from excessive motion... You are also asking a member to use different muscles to correct the problem and that means the a potential for injuries because of lack of coordination. All the member needs is a simple trip to a specialty running shop and get fitted into proper shoes. That said, we do so mush dance movement today, we really need more adequate lateral support then a common running shoe and cross trainers offer that (but loose some control elements) but I will still venture that a proper running shoe would solve the majority of our minor problems we get today.

Now to the rest of the lower body:

Here is the video I'll use for this: This is more for leg swing (swing phase) and how I relate it to the knees and style.

Now I'm for unity of style, I even teach "straight leg" with the band I work with and no injuries at all, and we had 2 minutes at 195 bpm this past season. That's because, foot roll ( how it rolls) is not style and should never be judged as it is.... BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE IT!!!! Foot roll varies from person to person, style is based on " how far they roll up past/to their platform" (platform = ball of the foot area).

IMO: style happens when the "and" beat occurs. The look of the "and" beat = style. You "roll up" to the toes, you will have bent knees. You push off to the "front" (towards the arch) of the platform = straight legs. While looking at the video, let us pretend the guy is marching. He would be marching with bent knees on the "ands ", he was also demonstrating a proper "roll through/ push off with toe" style of walking. Cavaliers and maybe SCV does currently have a "roll and push of with toes" forward movement.

Blue Knights use to march a style based on the "Alexander Technique", I had no problems with it other then it "had to be a you know what" to clean and must of been taxing on fast tempos but they did it... It was also a roll through the foot and push of the toes. In my eyes, the just stylized the heck out of the and beat and pointed the foot along side of the leg.

Straight leg is basically pushing off the platform, not the toes... When doing this, the leg bends less (but still bends) and if you begin dorsal flexsion (bend the foot) before the "and" beat, you will have a straight swinging leg with a toe up. I've seen variations where the "and beat" had both feet in dorsal flex, odd looking IMO and ventures into too much control of the foot roll (taking away from nature). Sure, the style is 100% natural (an no style other then walking is) but when taught correctly, it is very safe and easy to perform at fast tempos. Now I've seen groups keep straight for the whole range and force the leg into the hip and that's just crazy.

Variations in between the two is the "relaxed leg" and to be honest, I hate cleaning it because there is so much variation on it.

So, I agree with your friend from ankles down. As far as the leg, we can set style as long as we understand how to make the style happen with out forcing the issue.

Anything more, we will need to geek it out via PM :)

Edited June 12, 2011 by CloudHype