geluf Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I don't think a corps being dominant for a little bit is either bad or good for DCI. And where were the complainers when the Cavs won in 2000 (tie), 2001, 2002 and 2004? Oh, and 2006? And then took 2nd in 03 and 05? I didn't hear complaints of a corps being dominant then. I'm gonna guess you weren't around DCP then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOOHOO Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think since the fans voted them 5th, it's all moot now. Season over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I don't think a corps being dominant for a little bit is either bad or good for DCI. And where were the complainers when the Cavs won in 2000 (tie), 2001, 2002 and 2004? Oh, and 2006? And then took 2nd in 03 and 05? I didn't hear complaints of a corps being dominant then. I think the Blue Devils have a decent show this year, I've seen it both nights, and I enjoy it, I just really don't understand what it's about. The props make it even more confusing. But they sound good, I just think the Cavaliers have a total overall package - and it's funny too, because those two shows are the ones I really don't understand...? Maybe that's what makes a winning show a winning show - a theme that's hard to understand, but when you finally get it, you're like "wow"...kinda how I felt about the Cavs show last summer, although they didn't win. I never did understand the Blue Devils and their mirrors, so I just took it at face value. The Cadets have too specific a theme, which I think might limit their ability to expand their show...changes will inevitably come, maybe even a new closer, so I think if the Cadets are going to have a shot at the title, they are going to need to expand their show concept, or at least add some things to make it more dimensional. As far as the Cavs, they still haven't performed the last minute of their show. When they learn it, that should be the final nail in the Blue Devil's threepeat coffin. But I think it's clear that our top 3 this year will be Cavs, Cadets and Blue Devils - either way it goes, I don't think I care, they are all good. Wish them all the best, but I don't think BD are going to threepeat. Oh trust me. Those complaints were there. Lots of them. It was really funny actually. The Cavaliers were the "in" thing and everyone loved them, then all of the sudden fans got sick of them winning. When the corps started becoming less entertaining, then the fans really got sick of them and really kind of turned on the corps. A lot of the alumni did as well. The last few years (until recently actually) have been pretty tumultuous in cavalierland in that regard. I marched Cavaliers, so I am obviously going to be biased towards the corps, but I did understand why they got tired of them winning. You go to a show, you don't want to know what the outcome is before you get there. To make it worse, you hate to see a group that doesn't move you or entertain you beat the corps that do. It is a personal insult when it does. I get it. There were definitely some of the years where my old team was not really doing it for me, but still doing well competitively. I never rooted on them to finish lower than what they were, but I also never rooted for them to win when I thought the show or the performance level was not up to snuff. In the end, people want to be entertained and they wanted to see corps rewarded for entertaining AND achieving. The problem is, lots of times the corps that are achieving at the highest level are not entertaining at the highest level and the corps that are entertaining at the highest level are not achieving at the highest level and THAT is where we the rub is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) Being completely honest,one or two teams having a complete dominance over ANY competitive activity\sport is bad for that sport. Parity is the best thing, when a large number of groups could conceivably compete for a title, and even larger group could compete for a top finish. Then everyone else needs to step up their game. Ain't BD's problem. Or at least it wasn't -- but then, this is why the third year of a potential three-peat is when stuff starts to get *really* interesting. I would like to think BD's winning the last two years is the best kind of motivation that the other equally hungry corps could have, and it sounds, accordingly, like everyone is *really* bringing their A-game. This is going to be a great year -- it has a nice cliffhanger vibe, not least because many people weren't into BD 09/10. So long as BD doesn't do to DCI what James Logan HS did to WGI, I'm fine. But the second the blue team claims a 10(or was it 11?)-peat, I call foul. Edited June 20, 2011 by saxfreq1128 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 We had much this same discussion in the DCA forum re Bucs and their 5 year winning streak....if someone wants to beat them, they have to be better than them on show day....simple 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Then everyone else needs to step up their game. Ain't BD's problem. Or at least it wasn't -- but then, this is why the third year of a potential three-peat is when stuff starts to get *really* interesting. I would like to think BD's winning the last two years is the best kind of motivation that the other equally hungry corps could have, and it sounds, accordingly, like everyone is *really* bringing their A-game. This is going to be a great year -- it has a nice cliffhanger vibe, not least because many people weren't into BD 09/10. So long as BD doesn't do to DCI what James Logan HS did to WGI, I'm fine. But the second the blue team claims a 10(or was it 11?)-peat, I call foul. I think a lot of you are missing his point. He isn't trying to rag on BD, he's simply pointing out that one group winning over a long period of time is bad for a sport. In this case, drum corps. It's a true statement that has been shown time and time again. No, it isn't BD's fault they keep winning, but that doesn't mean it doesn't create an issue like this. It's human nature. We get disgruntled when one person/group becomes too dominant. Simple psychology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Oh trust me. Those complaints were there. Lots of them. It was really funny actually. The Cavaliers were the "in" thing and everyone loved them, then all of the sudden fans got sick of them winning. When the corps started becoming less entertaining, then the fans really got sick of them and really kind of turned on the corps. A lot of the alumni did as well. The last few years (until recently actually) have been pretty tumultuous in cavalierland in that regard. I marched Cavaliers, so I am obviously going to be biased towards the corps, but I did understand why they got tired of them winning. You go to a show, you don't want to know what the outcome is before you get there. To make it worse, you hate to see a group that doesn't move you or entertain you beat the corps that do. It is a personal insult when it does. I get it. There were definitely some of the years where my old team was not really doing it for me, but still doing well competitively. I never rooted on them to finish lower than what they were, but I also never rooted for them to win when I thought the show or the performance level was not up to snuff. In the end, people want to be entertained and they wanted to see corps rewarded for entertaining AND achieving. The problem is, lots of times the corps that are achieving at the highest level are not entertaining at the highest level and the corps that are entertaining at the highest level are not achieving at the highest level and THAT is where we the rub is. Hmm...wow...and no, I wasn't on DCP back then. But I have been a drum corps fan before those years. I think the new trend in the Cavaliers' show themes/designs was brilliant and innovative. I loved all of the shows 2000-2003 - didn't like 2004 too much, but 2006 was BEAST. But after "Machine" is when I started to get tired of that kind of style. I'd almost wish they would go back to something like 1992 - that is my favorite Cavaliers show. And that is when they stopped winning - when they didn't change their style. I think last year marked the beginning of a new trend. Speaking of trends, the reason why the Cadets are my favorite corps is because you never really know WHAT they will be bringing to the field one year to the next - they always have new ideas. But the problem with scoring is that the entertainment factor of a show doesn't determine who wins - 50% of it is corps talent, 40% show design, and 10% judges bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I think a lot of you are missing his point. He isn't trying to rag on BD, he's simply pointing out that one group winning over a long period of time is bad for a sport. In this case, drum corps. It's a true statement that has been shown time and time again. No, it isn't BD's fault they keep winning, but that doesn't mean it doesn't create an issue like this. It's human nature. We get disgruntled when one person/group becomes too dominant. Simple psychology. Uh, I think you're missing my point. I was clearly being playful, in the spirit of healthy competition, which -- until I sign into DCP -- is usually what I think DCI is. Let's please not play that game where everyone with a BD tag is assumed to be defending BD's successes, artistic choices, etc., ragging on the people who are supposedly ragging on BD. I'm not interested, because that's an annoying fan politics in which I am not involved. I'm here to have fun. Edited June 20, 2011 by saxfreq1128 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Uh, I think you're missing my point. I was clearly being playful, in the spirit of healthy competition, which -- until I sign into DCP -- is usually what I think DCI is. Let's please not play that game where everyone with a BD tag is assumed to be defending BD's successes, artistic choices, etc., ragging on the people who are supposedly ragging on BD. I'm not interested. I'm not really sure where I made the claim that you were Defending The Honor Of BD At Sundown With Revolvers, The Cadets Shall Be My Second, Good Day Sir, but alright. I quoted your post because it was the latest. Nothing personally attributed. P.S. Bluecoats will be my second, and I might be 5 minutes late. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) But the problem with scoring is that the entertainment factor of a show doesn't determine who wins - 50% of it is corps talent, 40% show design, and 10% judges bias. But shouldn't we be glad there's no big mothership organization named DCI trying to standardize and numerically determine what we, an incredibly diverse population of people, find 'entertaining'? I don't want some judge putting a number on my feelings for my sake. The fan voting/texting/whatevering stuff has got an annoyingly American Idol vibe to it, but at least it lets fans speak for themselves, rather than trying to devise a way for the judges to speak for them. In adjudicated competition, the judges should only be speaking for themselves. You know, separation of church (us) and state (DCI), etc etc. Speaking of, the Fan Network Tax is hurting my pocket, yeesh. Edited June 20, 2011 by saxfreq1128 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.