BRASSO Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Will people ever stop with "Rankings"? Its so comical. You CANNOT score corps "against" other corps who performed in a different venue under different judges. If the Red Sox beat the Angels 9-4 at one game, and the Rangers beat the A's 4-2 in another, can you say the Angels tied the Rangers and beat the A's? No. Different scores, during different games at a different park. And why stop there ? Staying with the baseball and DCI early season analogy, lets go with no home plate umpire, have the first base umpire call the balls and strikes behind home plate in the first 5 innings and the 3rd base umpire call the balls and strikes behind home plate in the next 4 innings. And then compare the baseball teams. The only thing that really counts is head to head match ups now.... and later, with a full " umpiring crew " to boot. Some teams are set with their veteran " starting pitchers " rotation, while others are still looking for the proper starting rotation for themselves with young pitching arms. ( maybe they get it, maybe they won't ). June Drum Corps scores are like April Major League Baseball scores. It may or may not be what wlll happen come October ( August ). The San Francisco Giants weren't world beaters last April when they were 8-7 and behind the San Diego Padres, or even the Texas Rangers who had a losing record ( 11-12 ) last April. But these were the 2 teams that eventually wound up playing for the World Series Title last year..... and with a full umpiring crew..... and despite their young pitching arms that didn't look like much back in April. Edited June 27, 2011 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Jim, If you look I was commenting on bluecoats88 comment. God forbid the Scouts should be placed on a list - on an online forum - "above the Bluecoats" gasp! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 God forbid the Scouts should be placed on a list - on an online forum - "above the Bluecoats" gasp! nothing to do with that - and my first list had them above the bluecoats since their most recent score put them there. the spreads calculation which takes into consideration spreads against all corps evens out the outlying high/low scores, and retains a corps relative standing when they don't have a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsoprano Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 God forbid the Scouts should be placed on a list - on an online forum - "above the Bluecoats" gasp! Yeah, you would have thought they called them Blue Coats or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Will people ever stop with "Rankings"? Its so comical. You CANNOT score corps "against" other corps who performed in a different venue under different judges. If the Red Sox beat the Angels 9-4 at one game, and the Rangers beat the A's 4-2 in another, can you say the Angels tied the Rangers and beat the A's? No. Different scores, during different games at a different park. I know were all excited about our corps scores (whoever your corps is) but just take it a show at time! I agree with you that you can't say, "well so and so got a 74 in Michigan, and so and so got a 74.2 in California, so the California group is .2 ahead of them right now. Until they go head to head...... However, I do think that it is somewhat safe to say that they may be comparable....especially if they are in the same scoring range for multiple shows in a row, and that they would most likely be competitive head to head. Sure, there is fluctuation, as there is with performances as well. However, if corps A gets a 62 at a show, and someone else has a 70 elsewhere, I think it is safe to say that corps A is behind. I would agree with you that years back, region to region and circuit to circuit things were so inconsistently judged that you had no clue until people went head to head. I have no problem with people speculating, though....especially if they have seen the shows of various corps who haven't gone head to head yet. I do think we are going to have a very competitive year, which is a good thing.......... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) nothing to do with that - and my first list had them above the bluecoats since their most recent score put them there. the spreads calculation which takes into consideration spreads against all corps evens out the outlying high/low scores, and retains a corps relative standing when they don't have a show. These June calculations do get dicey too. For example, look what The Academy shift becomes with the 2 calculations used. Plus, to assume a Corps " relative standing " in the standings when they have no shows for awhile has to assume the earth stopped spinning on it's axis in the same timeframe. And lets not even try and figure out where Corps that havn't competed yet would fall in these calculations, ie Colts, Cascades, etc ( maybe we could assign them last year's June 27th scores... maybe that'd work here in June ) Edited June 27, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emc2 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Don't know where you get the 5th place thing. if you go strictly by last score acheived. Cadets 78.80 Cavaliers 78.60 Blue Devils 77.70 Phantom 76.05 Crown 75.70 Santa Clara 74.55 Madison 74.10 Bluecoats 74.00 Blue Stars 72.40 Blue Knights 71.45 Boston 70.10 Spirit 68.60 Glassmen 68.00 Troopers 67.80 Crossmen 65.00 Academy 64.40 Mandarins 64.10 Pacific Crest 63.55 Teal Sound 59.40 Jersey Surf 56.80 Pioneer 56.40 And if you use a more accurate spread based calculation the results would be more realistic based on spreads against other corps. Cavaliers 79.20 Cadets 78.26 Blue Devils 77.48 Crown 75.98 Bluecoats 75.60 Phantom 75.21 Madison 73.71 Santa Clara 73.67 Blue Stars 72.29 Blue Knights 71.45 Boston 69.98 Academy 68.30 Glassmen 68.03 Spirit 67.76 Troopers 67.44 Crossmen 64.91 Mandarins 64.10 Pacific Crest 63.55 Teal Sound 61.50 Jersey Surf 56.80 Pioneer 56.16 Either way you cut it - Scouts are sitting in 7th not 5th - but they are looking like a contender for the top 8 this year. If you look at the 1st to last show over the past eight years and then get a point average. you get a better picture. example If corp X starts out with a 70 and the average increase point total over 8 yrs is say 22 point increase which gives you a score of 92. From there its +- 2 to 3 points. ( Note: In some cases it could be + - 4 or 5 depending on multiple thing.) Have a great day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70sxmenbass Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Did anyone else notice how loud Sprits pit amps were ??? There were times they were so loud you could just about hear the corps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Will people ever stop with "Rankings"? Its so comical. You CANNOT score corps "against" other corps who performed in a different venue under different judges. If the Red Sox beat the Angels 9-4 at one game, and the Rangers beat the A's 4-2 in another, can you say the Angels tied the Rangers and beat the A's? No. Different scores, during different games at a different park. I know were all excited about our corps scores (whoever your corps is) but just take it a show at time! When are people gonna stop using the analogy of self-scoring sports versus subjectively-scored sports? I mean, yeah, it's fun...but there's in no way any direct correlation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Exactly. "Fairly accurate" is a loose term with no real ranking value. Swings of 1-4 points can happen at any time as it did the first two nights with Crown. I follow the scores too and its fun to look at them, but not a way to determine real "rank". So, you use a poor analogy and chide everyone for using a mythical (although fairly accurate) tentative ranking system, yet you yourself do the same thing? lol Hoe about you just lighten up and not worry what others think. I love how people always try and temper the enthusiasm of Scouts fans. As if we're about to get too big for our britches. Last year it was, "yeah, they're better but they'll never make finals...it's just TOO HARD." Edited June 27, 2011 by BigBadMadMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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