Tito John Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 My usual take on it is that, within the context of the broader activity, Cavies are always among the most innovative corps on the field. But within the context of their own history, no, I wouldn't say that this show does anything that I wouldn't have expected the Cavaliers to be capable of doing or designing. I find the show surprising and interesting within its own 11.5 minute context, but in the broader scheme of things I wouldn't say there are any surprises. The Cavies say they are drawing on Cirque du Soleil for their inspiration...or part of it. I'm too new at this to know if that or something similar has been done before. Balancing on drums, upside-down tenors and trumpets, guard on stilts. I suppose that's X...Y, but I'm not sure how Cirque feeds into their overall show theme -- heck, I'm not sure what the show theme IS! But I'm still chasing my tail trying to understand your point. They are always innovative so you expect that, but this show is innovative only within the show and not over their track record of innovation? I hope there's still a beer left in the refrigerator... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 The Cavies say they are drawing on Cirque du Soleil for their inspiration...or part of it. I'm too new at this to know if that or something similar has been done before. Balancing on drums, upside-down tenors and trumpets, guard on stilts. I suppose that's X...Y, but I'm not sure how Cirque feeds into their overall show theme -- heck, I'm not sure what the show theme IS! But I'm still chasing my tail trying to understand your point. They are always innovative so you expect that, but this show is innovative only within the show and not over their track record of innovation? I hope there's still a beer left in the refrigerator... I think what he's essentially trying to say is that XtraordinarY is completely in the style we've come to expect from the Cavies over the past decade. So there is nothing new or surprising in that sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Measton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) I think what he's essentially trying to say is that XtraordinarY is completely in the style we've come to expect from the Cavies over the past decade. So there is nothing new or surprising in that sense. So the things that are new and exciting are... expected new and exciting things? Thus, anything the Cavies do is, in fact, a contradiction? ;) So, to break this pattern, next year, their show must be "OrdinarY," where they simply break out Appalachian Spring and Variations, with drill that is closer to early 90's rather than late 2000's. Bets for/against? :heavysarcasm: Edited July 30, 2011 by Measton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 So the things that are new and exciting are... expected new and exciting things? Thus, anything the Cavies do is, in fact, a contradiction? ;) So, to break this pattern, next year, their show must be "OrdinarY," where they simply break out Appalachian Spring and Variations, with drill that is closer to early 90's rather than late 2000's. Bets for/against? :heavysarcasm: While your sarcasm is noted, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Cavies need to revert back to old-school. If anything, I think they're suggesting they find a new path to set them apart. They did that at the beginning of the last decade and it garnered them great success. But now, 10+ years after the fact, the "formula" if you will, while still impressive most years, has gotten stale in the sense that when one sees a Cavies show, they know it's a Cavies show. (This can be said for many other corps as well). BD is the last corps that "shook things up", IMO. And they too have ridden that formula to a number of championships. I think we're seeing that freshness wear off a bit for them this year as they're having to fight for it. It's a delicate balance to strike. Setting off in new design territory is not a guarantee of success (see: Cadets 06-08), but it's generally what's needed to keep the activity from getting stale. I think the reason we're seeing such a tight race for the top spot is that everyone (judges) is kinda in their comfort zone as far as what to be expecting from each corps, and the corps themselves are comfortable with their respective identities to max out and focus on the performance. ** I'm not saying this year is stale by any stretch of the imagination. Just that we're starting to see shows more or less equal out in terms of hardcore "innovation". ... If that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Measton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 While your sarcasm is noted, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Cavies need to revert back to old-school. If anything, I think they're suggesting they find a new path to set them apart. They did that at the beginning of the last decade and it garnered them great success. But now, 10+ years after the fact, the "formula" if you will, while still impressive most years, has gotten stale in the sense that when one sees a Cavies show, they know it's a Cavies show. (This can be said for many other corps as well). BD is the last corps that "shook things up", IMO. And they too have ridden that formula to a number of championships. I think we're seeing that freshness wear off a bit for them this year as they're having to fight for it. It's a delicate balance to strike. Setting off in new design territory is not a guarantee of success (see: Cadets 06-08), but it's generally what's needed to keep the activity from getting stale. I think the reason we're seeing such a tight race for the top spot is that everyone (judges) is kinda in their comfort zone as far as what to be expecting from each corps, and the corps themselves are comfortable with their respective identities to max out and focus on the performance. ** I'm not saying this year is stale by any stretch of the imagination. Just that we're starting to see shows more or less equal out in terms of hardcore "innovation". ... If that makes sense. That is an excellent point regarding Cavs in the early 2000's and BD as of late. Change is necessary, but the "change" the Cavs seem to be putting in is the same "change" as what they were doing to shake things up back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tito John Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 That is an excellent point regarding Cavs in the early 2000's and BD as of late. Change is necessary, but the "change" the Cavs seem to be putting in is the same "change" as what they were doing to shake things up back then. Yeah...I guess. Innovative is only innovative sometimes, and change is the same change that was done a decade ago. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxfreq1128 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) Yeah...I guess. Innovative is only innovative sometimes, and change is the same change that was done a decade ago. Got it. More like... There are lots of ways to be innovative, and the Cavs -- and other corps -- have each maxed out just one of them. So now it's time to shake it up. FWIW I think their show is fantastic this year. But I always think their shows are fantastic... usually for the same reasons each time. It's not that it's not innovative; it's that it's, I dunno, comfortable. I appreciated BD's risk in pissing everyone off last year, like Star before them. Cavs haven't really pushed us in that way, recently. Edited July 30, 2011 by saxfreq1128 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) What if Debbie Torchia is just so good of a judge, that her scores are accurate, and the other judges are getting it wrong? Edited July 30, 2011 by BoyWonder1911 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I think a problem with Cavaliers, as far as judging their visual design, is that Gaines has been simply incredible now for over a decade. He's continually redefined vis design (and Cavaliers visual staff has continually redefined how to clean incredible visual design). At this point, I think most people sit back and look for a move that revolutionizes drum corps: of course, this is impossible to do every year. I also think that there are judges who look for that incredible vis moment every couple of sets in their show. I'm a huge fan of Gaines' work, and it's very easy for me to sit back and LOVE how he designs drill to constantly be developing. There is no other designer in DCI, IMO, who is that consistently great at staging and developing visual design. When you have someone that great at their work, you constantly expect them to be flawless ALL OF THE TIME: that's just not possible, and I think sometimes Cavaliers take a hit for not constantly changing visual design trends. On the flip side to that... There are other corps who have improved. Blue Devils have been at the forefront of visual design/execution now for well over 1 1/2 decades. Cadets often have top notch drill, and this year is their best visual design since 2005, IMO. Basically, Cavaliers have steep competition. We'll see how this all plays out (I'm sure we can all guess that Cavaliers still have a few visual tricks up their sleeve to play between now and Finals: like a different ending maybe? ). Regardless, I think this is going to be the most intense 'race to the end of the season' that DCI has had in awhile: at this point any of the Top 3 can win with the right performance/minor tweaks. As a drum corps fan, I'm hyped for such a great batch of shows this season, and it's exciting to see this all play out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splooie89 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Wow, I came back in here and this has developed into a really intelligent conversation...on DCP no less! Okay, next point for discussion....the line between having an identity and getting 'stale' as you put it. I happen to think this show, on the heels of Mad World, is a big break from the 00's Cavalier 'formula', but I can see your point about the bar continually being raised. Interesting views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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