jjeffeory Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Yes, while they are not an active junior corps, they still never folded. They just stopped being a drum corps, but that's different than folding. From the perspective of a DCI corps, it's the SAME as folding. They LEFT the activity. In fact, they took some members that could have marched in DCI (and DID previously with them in the beginning) and did something different. They ceased to be an active drum corps, folding as a drum corps to becoming something else. Think of the (intransitive) use of the word. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fold (intransitive) (poker) To withdraw from betting.With no hearts in the river and no chance to hit his straight, he folded.intransitive verb go out of business: to fail and stop operating as a business intransitive verb accept defeat: to give in and accept defeat" folded in the final minutes of the game" intransitive verb card games give up hand: in poker and other card games, to stop playing a hand in the belief that it cannot win Perhaps I am not seeing the emphasis of what is trying to be communicated here, but I think it is similar to something that has been brought up here before and maybe I'm reacting to that thread? Edited July 28, 2011 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwdad Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 pretty good question. in 9 years, it is hard to imagine that Drum corp would be larger, and if social trends continue, it could be far smaller or even fold. I am certainly not a fan of the "marketing" that DCI is doing, and the decisions made to hold finals in Indy for every year. Could be that DCI becomes very regionalized with very little support from outside the 1000 mile radius. In the other direction, the TOC seems to be successful. Certainly starting as early as it does applies pressure to the corps and will require adjusting teaching processes, etc... the down side is that great organizations will figure it out fairly quickly, and the barrier to other corps to breaking into the top echelon will rise. And I think that undefeated seasons will be extremely hard to come by... The added competition makes it that much tougher... Bottom line, I think that the activity shrinks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Thunder Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I know, but it did happen in 2009, so we could see it go up again, even if it's only a few corps at a time. Basically the growth in the 2009 season came with the exhibition-only corps. Unfortunately two of those corps, Freedom and Chippewa Valley Brigade, were not around one year later. We always used to hear of many potential startups, and a very small % of those corps would eventually make it to the field. I'm not hearing nearly as much about new corps ready to come out next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Basically the growth in the 2009 season came with the exhibition-only corps. Unfortunately two of those corps, Freedom and Chippewa Valley Brigade, were not around one year later. We always used to hear of many potential startups, and a very small % of those corps would eventually make it to the field. I'm not hearing nearly as much about new corps ready to come out next year. I know, but I'm sure a big part of that is the economic climate. With the economy where it is, starting up a corps is an extremely daunting prospect. I'd just like to think that one the economy improves, we'll start to see more people go for star-ups. And see some of the corps that went inactive for this year come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 We always used to hear of many potential startups, and a very small % of those corps would eventually make it to the field. I'm not hearing nearly as much about new corps ready to come out next year. Most startups fail. Only the great ones survive. Several corps starting up and failing is not necessarily a bad thing. If you looked a bit deeper into the corps that were staring up, but never going anywhere... you'd probably find 3 common elements: Founders and/or board members do not have sufficient business experience No realistic source of sufficient capital Not engaging with successful corps to study and duplicate their model, rather than recreating the wheel There has been no startup corps that didn't make it to the field that had resolved each of those elements. Anyway, what I am getting at is that in any industry there is a lot of talk and a lot of try. The fact that a large number do not succeed says more about those making the attempt than the industry or market itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Again... quality > quantity This kind of DCI narcisism is the root of all our problems. What it says is "as long as I can have Blue Devils and Santa Clara, I don't care if a few thousand kids can't participate any more." Who are you to declare a corps to be "deadwood" - what does that even mean? How can the existence of a smaller, younger corps possibly hurt the mighty G8? Edited July 28, 2011 by Grandpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwdad Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Again... quality > quantity. DR This kind of DCI narcisism is the root of all our problems. What it says is "as long as I can have Blue Devils and Santa Clara, I don't care if a few thousand kids can't participate any more." Who are you to declare a corps to be "deadwood" - what does that even mean? How can the existence of a smaller, younger corps possibly hurt the mighty G8? Hi Grandpa, I tend to agree with you, based on the last bunch of your posts that I read. I am not sure what is really meant by Daniel with the quality over quantity thing, but the deadwood comment is just wrong. We could apply that to the Chicago Cubs. I live between Santa Clara and Concord, and can see those two corps often. But the highlights of this year: 1) Phantom> I got to see the 3 or 4 times! Early in the season 2) Cadet: saw them 3 times. BTW, I do not like their show at all, but seeing them is still a delight. 3) VK: These guys are in open, not nearly as good as SCVC or BDB, but they are a lot of fun, and always entertaining, 4) BDC: kids! What else can I say? 5) Of course, BDB, SCVC, BD, and Vanguard. But, if the show was just BD and Vanguard, I would stay home. I like the quantity, even if it means that some corps are not as good or polished as the others. With quantity, I usually get more variety, and this year is a great example for the west coast, as both Cadet and Phantom joined our usual lineup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 This kind of DCI narcisism is the root of all our problems. What it says is "as long as I can have Blue Devils and Santa Clara, I don't care if a few thousand kids can't participate any more." Why encourage more kids to have a mediocre experience, rather than focus on strengthening existing corps? The last thing the activity needs is loads of mediocre corps or poorly run groups like they used to have. How many corps did Bill Cook bail out??? Who are you to declare a corps to be "deadwood" - what does that even mean? How can the existence of a smaller, younger corps possibly hurt the mighty G8? They declared themselves that when they folded. Smaller, younger corps are helped more by the top tier corps than they are hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Why encourage more kids to have a mediocre experience, rather than focus on strengthening existing corps? The last thing the activity needs is loads of mediocre corps or poorly run groups like they used to have. How many corps did Bill Cook bail out??? They declared themselves that when they folded. Smaller, younger corps are helped more by the top tier corps than they are hurt. Really? Name one corps that pushes the envelope of the musicians playing ability right now or in the last 10 years. Taking an entire year to learn at MOST 7-8 minutes of music..really? So basically you are saying, we should NOT have any grade school and high school music programs in this country any more because most are at BEST mediocre to awful. Really? Where is the challenge to learn 7-8 minutes of high school level music being played by college or excellent players? Wouldn't you think it would be MORE beneficial to grow younger players and push them to become better rather than stagnate? Interesting..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Wouldn't you think it would be MORE beneficial to grow younger players and push them to become better rather than stagnate? Interesting..... The schools can do a better job of this than drum corps in most cases. About only one show and so many minutes of music.... even back in my ancient days we were learning more than that and performing outside of the competitive show (and even North America). It has only expanded from this. About pushing playing ability... the fundamental basis of drum corps is synesthesia. It is the visual and auditory combined.... rather than an emphasis on a singular medium... so, it should be considered holistically. Drum corps are currently pushing the absolute limits of playing ability given simultaneous athletic demand and movement ability. Sure, back in my day we were playing loads of insane notes... but, realistically, moving with less visual demand than BDB currently does. The current level of achievement with simultaneous demand is unreal. These kids today are incredible. So, back to the point... let the schools teach kids how to play their instrument, and even how to move while doing it. Let drum corps teach youth how to go to the next level of simultaneous demand and push the absolute boundaries of this unique medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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