How do we save Drum Corps

[GUARDLING]

performing at a DCA show is not the same as getting feedback from DCI judges Mike, and you know it.

music programs are dying...i see it more and more every day on the news. trust me when i say if the economy keeps going as it is, more will continue to die out, as well as smaller schools will get merged with other small schools...and music will get cut there.

damage? look at the steep drop in Friends alone as Garfield mentioned. Now look around for many faces you USED to see at shows. Once they leave, it's harder to get them to come back and check it out.

I know, I'm discussing business 101 here, and we all know business and drum corps haven't always gone hand in hand.....but you lose a customer, odds are, they'll never be back.

Ive also talked to many people, many family members dating back to 1948 in the activity. Although I DO think youre right about customers, I also think for many, they are just plain ole arent interested in the activity or have moved on with their lives but use the excuse of " I don't like the direction etc etc ".......Theres just as many from an older generation who can't afford to travel or spend what it costs for a show.

[BRASSO]

Youre right..But I think just for the TV issue. It was proven to sponsors in the past our activity was not large enough, nor a sound financial investment having drum corps as part of programming. Even PBS did away with it because people who pledged never followed through.

Those who tell you that PBS dropped the DCI telecast because " those who pledged never followed through " are correct. But did they also tell you that the telecast had lower viewership as the years went by, and that those who called in to pledge were much less in number than in previous years ? Or did they " forget " to tell you that part ?

NBA had disgruntled fans when they went to the 3 point shot... but the change was not so traumatic that lots left.

MLB had disgruntled fans when the AL went to the Designated Hitter rule... but they stuck around. That was a rule change. Most adjusted after a bit of useage in games. But had MLB decided to change the wooden bats used for over 100 years to aluminum bats, thousands no doubt would have bolted, never to return. Thats because this is a radical change in the instrument used in competition in this sport. Now, thats ok, so long as the use of the aluminum bat brings in more fans to replenish the ones lost that cherished the traditional wooden bats. But this was unneccessary, as fundamentally, the changes in these competitive sports were changes that did not fundamentally alter the sport itself ( such as wooden bats to aluminum bats that MLB shows no interest in adopting despite its technological advance over the wooden bats that break all the time) Change happens in all sports. But the changes that were approved in Drum Corps over the last 50 years has had no rival anywhere in the world in any other competitive sport in my opinion.

Edited May 10, 2012 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

Those who tell you that PBS dropped the DCI telecast because " those who pledged never followed through " are correct. But did they also tell you that the telecast had lower viewership as the years went by, and that those who called in to pledge were much less in number than in previous years ? Or did they " forget " to tell you that part ?

NBA had disgruntled fans when they went to the 3 point shot... but the change was not so traumatic that lots left.

MLB had disgruntled fans when the AL went to the Designated Hitter rule... but they stuck around. That was a rule chsange. But had MLB decided to change the wooden bats used for over 100 years to aluminum bats, thousabnds no doubt would have bolted, never to return. Now, thats ok, so long as the use of the aluminum bat brings in more fans to replenish the ones they lost. But this was unneccessary, as fundamentally, the changes in these competitive sports were changes that did not fundamentally alter the sport itself, despite the changes adopted over the years.

yes low viewers was also part of it . So combined it was a no brainer to drop the telecast.

Edited May 10, 2012 by GUARDLING

[audiodb]

Interesting.....I agree...1 possible problem....who is the and how do we please the legacy fan....I've heard a problem recently amoung alumni corps...Seems as time goes by what one likes will change drastically ( or could ) a person from the 80s could have very different likes from a legacy fan from the 60s or 90s to now.

What? You can't paint them all with one broad brush? Who knew?

By the way, not all current marchers think alike, either.

[audiodb]

The nice thing is, there is a new group of legacy fans adding to the numbers each year.

Good point. So many people forget to account for how "legacy fans" are a renewable resource.

[KeithHall]

Here is something to ponder..... Those of us who marched BITD, did so for many years. Take an age out today and see how many years they marched in a corps. My guess (and only a guess) is that many age-outs today average 3-5 years in a corps. Many of us in the 50 year range did twice that in junior corps. What I think I am getting at is...the "legacy's" from the 70's have been loyal to the activity. With all the things going on today, how loyal will the age-outs be in 20 years from now?

[audiodb]

Its been said many many times we are a small niche compared to other groups. When you think back on the foundation of drum corps, what it was, what it stood for, who it was supported by, whatand who it served in neighborhoods, I'm actually surprised it's still around today.

Even look at boy scouts...most kids wanted to be boy scouts and cub scouts bitd, in 2012 Boy Scouts have 1/2 the members than they had in 1972...these are their facts.

So what? Other youth activities have grown in that same time period....and like Brasso pointed out, cheerleading and dance teams have gained the TV exposure that drum corps has lost (not to suggest TV is essential, or even desirable, for DCI in today's evolving media).

Anyway, growth is possible for youth activities, even in the face of declining birth rates. We've seen examples. Why are you so quick to discard the notion of growth for drum corps?

[KeithHall]

Talking about TV exposure.....could it be that to get the full effect of a drum corps experience, one needs to be there (in person). The sound, the atmosphere, the roar of the crowd, etc...you can't experience that on TV. The cameras can't catch everything. They try but it's not possible. Most newer fans that I have met over the years became fans because they went to a contest NOT because of television.

[MikeD]

performing at a DCA show is not the same as getting feedback from DCI judges Mike, and you know it.

It is a performance opportunity...I made no reference to judge feedback. I still want to know which corps you think was misplaced because they did not do a full tour.

music programs are dying...i see it more and more every day on the news. trust me when i say if the economy keeps going as it is, more will continue to die out, as well as smaller schools will get merged with other small schools...and music will get cut there.

No, they aren't dying when looked at in total. Yes, individual programs here and there are in trouble (Upper Darby, for instance). But in total the numbers of music programs has been pretty consistent. According to an arts study by the NCES (National Center for Education Statistics), in 1999-2000 90% of secondary schools had music instruction availble. In 2009-2010 the number was 91%, nationwide.

damage? look at the steep drop in Friends alone as Garfield mentioned. Now look around for many faces you USED to see at shows. Once they leave, it's harder to get them to come back and check it out.

I do look at lots of old faces like mine at shows...people who have been attending shows for decades...and who still attend shows.

I know, I'm discussing business 101 here, and we all know business and drum corps haven't always gone hand in hand.....but you lose a customer, odds are, they'll never be back.

The goal is to retain customers where possible and attract new ones...this is what DCI marketing efforts are doing. If some number have left (as always happened, even pre-DCI), they had better attract new people...and the logical place to do so is where they are targeting their efforts...schoastic programs.

And...they are doing a better job at the retain part, IMO.

[MikeD]

True... but back then there were a lot more fans going to a lot more shows to see a lot more Corps. So there were both more disgruntled fans as well as more happy fans... just more fans in general back in earlier decades. Regional Shows were on TV live.... DCI Championships on TV live. The Drum Corps News you are referring too is gone. 38,000 fans in 1980 at Championships Finals in 1980 has given way to crowds at Finals less than half that size. So while we have had more change in our Drum Corps activity the last 50 years than probably any other competitive sport in the world in a similar time frame,the changes have led to thousands of lost fans, and loss of TV sponsorship.

Drum corps in general has shrunk from what it was in 1980. As for finals attendance, what was it in the late 90's? Low teens if I recall. Today is has increased to the low/mid 20's.

I pine for the old days where the Finals was on TV live... or if not live, at least taped for future viewing on TV. Heck, even the High School Cheeleaders and Dance Team National Championships are on TV.

I don't pine for those days...I much prefer seeing 1/4 finals on a large screen in the movie theaters. And I also have semis available streaming online.

HS Cheerleading and Dance teams on TV...they have sponsors willing to fund them on the ESPN networks. They have a few things going for them...they are full of young women in good shape wearing relatively few clothes as compared to a drum corps performance...certain to attract one demographic that already watches ESPN. They are on a smaller stage, so that the cameras can be closer than on a football field, and the audience can see faces...as opposed to the intentional anonymity of the corps uniform (outside of the guard, of course).

Another negative...drum corps is "just" marching band. We love it, but to the general public, it is hardly something they yearn to see.

So while we have lost thousands of fans from coast to coast we have not been able to replenish the lost fans with new fans. And that needs to be addressed. We have not lost the talent that is available to show designers of today. Nobody believes the talent of today in Corps is any less than that of the past. So as we " evolve " and as we " change ", we need to be sure that the changes we adopt that scuttle things from the past do not ultimately lead to extinction.The good news here is that SOME of the current movers and shakers in DCI ( Cesario, Delucia, etc )understand that we need to be careful that we don't lose more fans. Thats because just about every sensible and rational person understands that this activity can not sustain itself long term without fan growth.

Fan growth is important, to be sure. That is why DCI targets their primary marketing efforts as they do, at scholastic music programs. They are already part of the game, so to speak. They provide both the primary audience and the future marching members. The biggest bang for the expended buck happens here, IMO.

And...DCI is doing a better job lately, IMO, at efforts to improve legacy fan retention.