GeneralTsoChicken Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Well, I am no expert, (a true understatement), but I have a question........ if Troopers/Academy played SCV's show music while executing their drill, would they be better hornlines than if SCV played and marched their shows? IMHO, this is where such arguments fall short. No doubt that SCV would be better with Troopers/Academy's show. The judges are judging excellence relative to content. It is the design teams responsibility to balance that content so that a certain level of execution can be attained. This, in my uneducated view, is where the SCV Design Team has failed their members numerous times. They knew going into this year they would have a young hornline. Yet, they still over programmed the heck out of their music and drill. This very tenet is something even good high school band directors can grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlassmenBtone Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Well, I am no expert, (a true understatement), but I have a question........ if Troopers/Academy played SCV's show music while executing their drill, would they be better hornlines than if SCV played and marched their shows? IMHO, this is where such arguments fall short. Apples to oranges, etc, But, I don't really know..... just wondering. Then the drill is at fault for making this hornline sound like a 15th place brass section (not as good as academy or Troop) when that might not necessarily be true. I also heard them play clowns and it was a mess (tuning, overblowing). As for them getting 11th in brass at prelims, I disagree that that was the anomaly and because of slotting they had to get scores closer to what the rest of the corps was scoring. This is all coming from a loving place that wants to see SCV's brass section make a comeback btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) It's just always so funny how many armchair judges come out on DCP after the season is over. Clearly the judges, (those people who's opinions matter) thought SCV had an 8th place hornline. Were they bad at the beginning? Yes, but did you see the show? Were they much, much better by the end of the season? YES, they really were. They improved a crazy amount over the course of the year. But they started out bad, so people had them pegged from the beginning, and refused to believe they improved. Someone mentioned Phantom's percussion, and that analogy is the same. Come out of the bad weak, and there's no way to improve in the eyes of the masses, no matter what the judges say on Finals night. Edited September 5, 2011 by fsubone 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 It's just always so funny how many armchair judges come out on DCP after the season is over. Clearly the judges, (those people who's opinions matter) thought SCV had an 8th place hornline. Were they bad at the beginning? Yes, but did you see the show? Were they much, much better by the end of the season? YES, they really were. They improved a crazy amount over the course of the year. But they started out bad, so people had them pegged from the beginning, and refused to believe they improved. Someone mentioned Phantom's percussion, and that analogy is the same. Come out of the bad weak, and there's no way to improve in the eyes of the masses, no matter what the judges say on Finals night. Yes. All of us on here are "arm-chair judges." All of us. I was at one point a DCI judge though, so I do have some insight into how things work, but inevitably I am still an arm-chair judge since I was not on the field night after night this year. I was on the road a lot this summer and had a chance to see them on a regular basis throughout the year, hence the reason I do most of my posting not during the summer (due to lack of internet on the road). You on the other hand are a former member, and by the sounds of it, are still eligible to march SCV and plan to again in the future. So, you are going to be naturally biased as well. Let's keep that in mind too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Please enlighten me on your on your expertise to validate your opinion. Bachelors in Music Education, Masters in performance, and a former DCI judge. Not the most qualified out there by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly not the least either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 What colorful adjectives might you use to describe these hornlines: Pioneer Jersey Surf Troopers Colts Academy Pacific Crest Mandarins You've made the cardinal mistake that many DCPers accuse judges of making! If SCV's hornline is your "awful," you now have the last place hornline at "Should never have been born." There are penny of adjectives (both good and bad) to describe those groups you mentioned, but that is not what this topic is about. It is about SCV's horn line. It is my opinion that there were bad. Some disagree. That is ok. I will say that I had a discussion with Jeff Fiedler a years ago about staff consistency and he talked about how important it was, but he choose to pull the trigger on this staff after just one year...That should say something about how the organization felt about their productivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayesha3 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) . Edited September 6, 2011 by ayesha3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 No. Sorry, I must have been unclear. What I meant was there were plenty of hornlines that finished below them that sounded better in my opinion. I think you've taken this too seriously. Really. #1 These aren't paid professionals. #2 Any of the brasslines in the top 12 sound better than most HS ensembles around and many college ensembles. #3 Horrible isn't the word to describe how any of these corps sound. I've heard some horrible brass sounds in my life. These weren't it. Just saying.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Bachelors in Music Education, Masters in performance, and a former DCI judge. Not the most qualified out there by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly not the least either. No. Those accolades are impressive. It's just the delivery that took me aback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I think you've taken this too seriously. Really. You are right. I do take it seriously. I have a lot of respect for The Vanguard. I do not blame the kids and I do think they made a great hire with the Bluecoats brass staff coming over. I did not agree with the hiring of the old Cavaliers brass staff when it was first announced and voiced those concerns on here last year and those concerns came into fruition worse than I could have imagined. So yes, I did / do take it seriously. #1 These aren't paid professionals. The members are not, but the staff certainly are. By drum corps standards, they were very well payed professionals. I do not blame the members. Not one bit. They played the way that they were taught / told to play. I would not fault them unless they blatantly had a disregard for their instructors or the music in front of them. I do not believe that was the case with them this year. Every time I saw them in the lot, the members seamed very focused and attentive. So, I am not blaming them one bit. #2 Any of the brasslines in the top 12 sound better than most HS ensembles around and many college ensembles. Yes. Absolutely.. but not all. #3 Horrible isn't the word to describe how any of these corps sound. I've heard some horrible brass sounds in my life. These weren't it. Just saying.... Ok. It's a matter of perspective I guess. If we are comparing 2011 SCV to all brass sounds on the planet, then yes, they were far from horrible. If we are comparing them to all drum corps this last season, that is debatable. If we are comparing them to past SCV lines, I think it is pretty clear and many other alumni would agree. Edited September 6, 2011 by roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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