TerriTroop Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Again, why is this happening now, yet not with the Legacy series (or at least the first decade I have)? I find it hard to believe all corps back in that era were compliant, and they played a lot more recently composed often'pop' music. Is there a statute of limitations in play? It's happening now because there's more money to be made, and someone figured that out. The artists have very little control once they sign on the dotted lines with various copyright/licensing agencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Dumb question, but were all the 'license issues' in place for the Legacy Series; DVDs? I have 1974-1983 (except 81), which is a whole lot of drum corps. There are a few places where the video drops out, supposedly do to condition of the original source, but nowhere is something missing due to 'license issues'. I also remember discussions in DCI Contest Guild (sort of a hard-copy newspaper that evolved decades later into their website) that stated all corps needed to make sure they were meeting copyright requirements. So, did that copyright law change, or back then were corps more diligent in securing permission (I doubt this one), or are copyright owners more aggressive now in defending their rights, likely due to issues arising from TSTMNBM or Napster? Or is it something else (statute of limitations perhaps)? Kevin Gamin at least partially answered this question in a related thread: Re: Madison's Full Show on Fan Network! I can't speak for the "Legacy" series, though I have most of those DVDs. I also have a number of WGI DVDs. Something I've noticed over the years is that performances captured on my various DVDs are no longer available in the DCI or WGI archives. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I have wondered if the reason is because licensing issues have come up since those videos were initially produced, distributed and then redistributed through the "Legacy" DVDs and other media. I think it's misleading to believe that once things are nailed down, they are always nailed down. It seems like things are becoming more and more complex, and no corps can rest assured that every piece played and captured on some form of digital media will stand the legal test of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Ya know, if Drum Corps stuck with Sousa none of this would apply... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I posted this in another thread that specifically dealt with Scouts' issues obtaining synch rights: In WGI if a unit does not get syncing rights WGI charges the unit an "editing fee" of several hundred dollars; on the DVD's of Finals if a group has a portion of the show that did not clear rights, there is no sound. This situation is unfortunate, and I'm not 100% sure it's fair to blame Scouts for this debacle: this is a fairly new thing in the industry (syncing rights) and I would bet that publishers & rights holders are still not sure of how they want to handle this property right. A more interesting discussion, I think, is if a corps isn't 100% they can obtain the sync rights to a piece, should they scrap the idea or go full steam ahead? If the music is effective and works perfectly for a show, is there an obligation for a corps to think about the DVD's at the expense of competitive success: or should corps think 100% about the DVD's at the possible expense of show effectiveness? With this type of policy in place, DCI would essential "force" corps to decide if the extra fee (and not having their complete music production on the DVD's) is worth the artistic expression of using a piece that they are unable to get synching rights to. I honestly don't know how I feel about this, other than I have never used a piece of music in a show I've been a part of without obtaining all necessary rights required by whichever circuit. In addition to the discussion point I mention in the last paragraph quoted above, another option that comes to mind is this: as a drum corps fan, are you satisfied with Scouts' use of ESOM this season knowing the result of using the piece means their closer will not have audio on the DVD's? Or would you prefer Scouts would've chosen a piece that they could've gotten synching rights to? *subquestion: knowing that Madison did not move up in placement from 2010, does this impact your answer (for example, theoretically if they chose a different closer piece of music they might've placed higher in 2011: or they might've placed lower with a different closer)? Edited August 22, 2011 by perc2100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Salvatore Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Good discussion thus far! With strong respect to the Scouts, I think this will ultimately come to a head when a corps wins the world championship playing most of their music without obtaining the synch rights. Then what? All in all I somewhat agree with the notion that the corps have the independence to make that type of decision; but, also agree that this would be disastrous for DCI and a dangerous precedent to set (lets all just roll the dice and play music that we might not have reasonable change at obtaining rights for). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Good discussion thus far! With strong respect to the Scouts, I think this will ultimately come to a head when a corps wins the world championship playing most of their music without obtaining the synch rights. Then what? All in all I somewhat agree with the notion that the corps have the independence to make that type of decision; but, also agree that this would be disastrous for DCI and a dangerous precedent to set (lets all just roll the dice and play music that we might not have reasonable change at obtaining rights for). I'm thinking the other direction.... bunch of corps playing original music (IOW - music no one ever heard before) to get away from the expense and problems of obtaining the rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ya know, if Drum Corps stuck with Sousa none of this would apply... Um-Pah, Um-Pah, Um-Pah, Um-Pah,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) With this type of policy in place, DCI would essential "force" corps to decide if the extra fee (and not having their complete music production on the DVD's) is worth the artistic expression of using a piece that they are unable to get synching rights to. I honestly don't know how I feel about this, other than I have never used a piece of music in a show I've been a part of without obtaining all necessary rights required by whichever circuit. Like you, I have very mixed feelings about this. I think the Scouts genuinely believed they would get all the necessary permissions, including synch rights. I have no way of knowing, but it may be that they had most of the synch rights permissions and had no reason to believe that the rest wouldn't follow suit. as a drum corps fan, are you satisfied with Scouts' use of ESOM this season knowing the result of using the piece means their closer will not have audio on the DVD's? Or would you prefer Scouts would've chosen a piece that they could've gotten synching rights to? From what I heard from the live streams on the Fan Network, I believe that ESOM was the ideal closer for this particular program. Yes, I will be disappointed if it's not on my Blu-ray, but I also think that the fans' enjoyment of this program outweighs the potential muting of this piece on the DVDs. It will be a sad omission for the public record, but it doesn't change what actually happened during the season. And sometimes you've gotta go with what you believe in, and let the chips fall where they may. *subquestion: knowing that Madison did not move up in placement from 2010, does this impact your answer (for example, theoretically if they chose a different closer piece of music they might've placed higher in 2011: or they might've placed lower with a different closer)? For me, this is too open-ended a question. There's no way to know if Scouts had changed closers, would their placement have moved up . . . or down? Again, sometimes you've gotta go with what you believe in, and let the chips fall where they may. Edited August 22, 2011 by byline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 ...There's no way to know if Scouts had changed closers, would their placement have moved up . . . or down? Again, sometimes you've gotta go with what you believe in, and let the chips fall where they may. :worthy: :worthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Um-Pah, Um-Pah, Um-Pah, Um-Pah,... You mean this? BTW: What's up with the arranger? They write it like anything but treble cleff is Haraam. Edited August 23, 2011 by danielray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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