badoo Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 [/b][/size] And the FANS make the ultimate decision. If the FANS don't care for what they are seeing or hearing, they will stop plunking down hard-earned bucks to see it. When the stadia are all empty then the corps can play whatever they want with whatever instruments they choose. I maintain that dci should change its title to "Drumcorps Corrupted, Intentionally". Just my opinion though, or is it? Ray OldePharte Sorry, I didn't realize that 2 other folks raised the same point. How do you think the fans make the ultimate decision? What is this based on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 You got me. I also wish I had your ability of mind reading. That would be awesome. Besides, it's not arrogance if it's true Well, I can certainly say that at least your cockiness is rather amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Priester Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 How do you think the fans make the ultimate decision? What is this based on? They make the decision by not going to shows. I would think that a lot of empty seats would get the message across. It's based on well over 50 years in this activity. H**l, I was born into it. The late, great marching instructor Frank Kubinak, got his start as a second soprano in my grandfather's junior corps back in the 40s. I grew up around him and many other future legends of the sport. I played in the 50s, 60s, 70s and am still involved with an alumni corps. I think I have the necessary qualifications to form and voice an opinion on the subject. And, no, I am not a music major but I love music and know what I want to hear and how I want to hear it. And I am one of the folks who pay admission fees or not. Thank you very much. Ray Olde Pharte 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 They make the decision by not going to shows. I would think that a lot of empty seats would get the message across. It's based on well over 50 years in this activity. H**l, I was born into it. The late, great marching instructor Frank Kubinak, got his start as a second soprano in my grandfather's junior corps back in the 40s. I grew up around him and many other future legends of the sport. I played in the 50s, 60s, 70s and am still involved with an alumni corps. I think I have the necessary qualifications to form and voice an opinion on the subject. And, no, I am not a music major but I love music and know what I want to hear and how I want to hear it. And I am one of the folks who pay admission fees or not. Thank you very much. Ray Olde Pharte The points I highlighted above sort of highlight what the gap is in terms of tastes and interests of a lot of guys from the older days as compared to the current generation. In generations past, a lot of people got their training on how to play the instrument from within the activity. The corps took kids from the local community, gave them a pair of sticks or a horn, at a young age, and taught them to play. Most of the instructors were volunteer and did not have formal training or higher education in music. Many of the kids that grew up in that generation that were taught this way, really dug music and went on to pursue formal training and higher education in music and continued to teach drum corps. With each successive generation, this cycle repeated to the point where every corps out there has formally trained music educators, many of them with advanced degrees in music. At the same time, the kids attracted as performers are coming to corps with a very high level of playing ability and experience as performers. These factors have dramatically influenced music selection, arrangement, instrumentation, etc. This is a natural sort of evolution... one that should be encouraged to continue. The good thing is that there are still other outlets outside of DCI for people who prefer more traditional approaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The points I highlighted above sort of highlight what the gap is in terms of tastes and interests of a lot of guys from the older days as compared to the current generation. In generations past, a lot of people got their training on how to play the instrument from within the activity. The corps took kids from the local community, gave them a pair of sticks or a horn, at a young age, and taught them to play. Most of the instructors were volunteer and did not have formal training or higher education in music. Many of the kids that grew up in that generation that were taught this way, really dug music and went on to pursue formal training and higher education in music and continued to teach drum corps. With each successive generation, this cycle repeated to the point where every corps out there has formally trained music educators, many of them with advanced degrees in music. At the same time, the kids attracted as performers are coming to corps with a very high level of playing ability and experience as performers. These factors have dramatically influenced music selection, arrangement, instrumentation, etc. This is a natural sort of evolution... one that should be encouraged to continue. The good thing is that there are still other outlets outside of DCI for people who prefer more traditional approaches. A high school academic concert ensemble, for example, who plays obscure music at a judged performance where the only people in the auditorium are the judges does serve an educational function; it introduces the youth to obscure music outside the norm, and another primary function is to also teach the students the technical aspects of the art form. However, this is not art for arts sake we are discussing here within drum corps. DCI is an "entertainment" outlet as much, if not more, than an educational tool; and it has to appeal to the paying audience to put their butts in seats for its very survival. There is nothing wrong with exploring various musical genres, but the line is crossed when the corps staff places their own intellectual musical tastes above those of the paying public, and really do damage to the activity, I mean real damage, when the corps staff desire to "educate" the audience instead of "entertain" them. Why? Because if they (the audience) want to "pay" to be educated they will enroll in courses at their local universities; but what they will "pay" for is to have the ability to escape life's troubles, if only for a few brief moments, by being "entertained". And for those who are going to intellectually counter with the definition of the word entertain depends on who is being entertained, please save your typing energy for the seven people who enrolled in the university course "Philosophy of Nomenclature and the meaning of Language". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 A high school academic concert ensemble, for example, who plays obscure music at a judged performance where the only people in the auditorium are the judges does serve an educational function; it introduces the youth to obscure music outside the norm, and another primary function is to also teach the students the technical aspects of the art form. However, this is not art for arts sake we are discussing here within drum corps. DCI is an "entertainment" outlet as much, if not more, than an educational tool; and it has to appeal to the paying audience to put their butts in seats for its very survival. There is nothing wrong with exploring various musical genres, but the line is crossed when the corps staff places their own intellectual musical tastes above those of the paying public, and really do damage to the activity, I mean real damage, when the corps staff desire to "educate" the audience instead of "entertain" them. Why? Because if they (the audience) want to "pay" to be educated they will enroll in courses at their local universities; but what they will "pay" for is to have the ability to escape life's troubles, if only for a few brief moments, by being "entertained". And for those who are going to intellectually counter with the definition of the word entertain depends on who is being entertained, please save your typing energy for the seven people who enrolled in the university course "Philosophy of Nomenclature and the meaning of Language". Absolutely.... my point is simply that the demographics of the audience have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Absolutely.... my point is simply that the demographics of the audience have changed. Nope; the demographics of those who design and instruct have changed. And they are, quite frankly, attempting to force the change in the audience, maybe even unintentionally, by stating through their shows, "We the academically superior in music are here to educate you, the inferior audience; and if you do not like those changes it is only because you are against being educated by us who are smarter and more intellectual than you in art; and many of you just refuse to rise above those guttural sounds of inferior musical tastes". Sure, corps who go that direction have entertained a few and educated some; but the majority of the "paying" audience wants what the Scouts or Crown produced this year (a healthy balance between quality and shear entertainment). What I am getting at is if the corps are not careful to factor in the extreme importance of the audience (who do not want to be educated but entertained), they will only be playing for the judges in an empty theater just like most high school ensembles during concert judging performances. Edited August 27, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocko the Wonder Llama Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Has anyone noticed, that as we add more and more "stuff" to the shows: amped pits, amped soloists, synthisizers, electronic sound effects, amped voice, enough props to warrant another truck, etc that the number of corps has declined? I was under the impression that these changes were made in order to make the activity grow, when they have, in fact, caused the activity to contract. (More stuff = More cost) But I have to wonder, were these changes made to improve the product and the activity, or to feed the egos of the "artists" on the staffs? This is not a slam of the marching members. I am extremely impressed by the product that the kids today are performing. But where does it end? Do I go to a drum corps show to see Alice in Chains? - No. Do I go to a drum corps show to see Cirque deu Soleil? - No. Do I go to a drum corps show to see talented musicians play horns and drums that rip my face off while marching amazing drills? - He11 YES! The corps these days have amazing musicians on the field. Why hide them behind 14 layers of electronica? Note: I am not addressing colorguard here simply because it lies outside the parameters of this duscussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Has anyone noticed, that as we add more and more "stuff" to the shows: amped pits, amped soloists, synthisizers, electronic sound effects, amped voice, enough props to warrant another truck, etc that the number of corps has declined? I was under the impression that these changes were made in order to make the activity grow, when they have, in fact, caused the activity to contract. (More stuff = More cost) But I have to wonder, were these changes made to improve the product and the activity, or to feed the egos of the "artists" on the staffs? This is not a slam of the marching members. I am extremely impressed by the product that the kids today are performing. But where does it end? Do I go to a drum corps show to see Alice in Chains? - No. Do I go to a drum corps show to see Cirque deu Soleil? - No. Do I go to a drum corps show to see talented musicians play horns and drums that rip my face off while marching amazing drills? - He11 YES! The corps these days have amazing musicians on the field. Why hide them behind 14 layers of electronica? Note: I am not addressing colorguard here simply because it lies outside the parameters of this duscussion. See bold above!!!!!! Granted we should not stereotype; there are staff who are humble and look to the audience with respect. But for the most part, it has been a push to do this for the sake of the "art form" along with an attempt to change drum corps into their own self haughty visions (and I am sure that they truly believe that they are looking out for the best interest of the art). Edited August 27, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Has anyone noticed, that as we add more and more "stuff" to the shows: amped pits, amped soloists, synthisizers, electronic sound effects, amped voice, enough props to warrant another truck, etc that the number of corps has declined? I was under the impression that these changes were made in order to make the activity grow, when they have, in fact, caused the activity to contract. (More stuff = More cost) But I have to wonder, were these changes made to improve the product and the activity, or to feed the egos of the "artists" on the staffs? This is not a slam of the marching members. I am extremely impressed by the product that the kids today are performing. But where does it end? Do I go to a drum corps show to see Alice in Chains? - No. Do I go to a drum corps show to see Cirque deu Soleil? - No. Do I go to a drum corps show to see talented musicians play horns and drums that rip my face off while marching amazing drills? - He11 YES! The corps these days have amazing musicians on the field. Why hide them behind 14 layers of electronica? Note: I am not addressing colorguard here simply because it lies outside the parameters of this duscussion. only thing worse than rip your face off saying is peopke who still say dude or throwing babies.....imo as someone who was part of the past as well as now, many not all of the additions are wonderful in the productions..why not enhance any way you can , musically as well as visually. so its not yesterdays drum corps, there is probably more the same then not. also why should it stay exactly the same. with the world that has changed in many ways why do some and i repeat some people feel drum corps is immune to it. i say bring it all on. if it works great if it doesnt then you re-invent just as we always have done in drum corps...thats what has made our activity different. NOT A STYLE OR A CERTAIN HORN OR DRUM. drum corps people are kind of unique and thats what makes it great PS...THE EGOS OF STAFFS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE. many of the greats, the ones who drove the direction in the past were huge talents but many had egos..come on its entertainment, performing in front of an audiance, an ego is a part of everyone involved. Edited August 27, 2011 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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