Stu Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 dci staffs are the ones who went to the band programs to teach bringing the drum corps style mainly for the money , so many hs programs have become the test ground for many shows.....without naming corps there have been many in recent years that this is easy to see....whos in charge now/ well its kinda the egg chicken thing.......wgi is a front runner with corps because alot of wgi designers are designers in dci as well as alot of the judges Now you are getting into the realm of what, IMO, is the real dilemma that exists if DCI is going to claim to be the Leader of the activity and "Marching Music Major League". DCI is not a career track for the instructors; high school and university bands are these instructors bread and butter. Do you see any other organizations which claim to be "Major League" having their coaches spend most of their time with high school teams, as their main paying jobs? Nope. So, it is not difficult to see that the activity which establishes the career track for these people, high school band jobs, is what is now driving the marching arts bus instead of DCI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 DCI used to be the pinnacle most every high school marching band wanted to aspire to emulate. However, somewhere down the line, even though the corps are very qualitative and DCI now claims to be Marching Music Major League, DCI got pushed out of the drivers seat and BOA/WGI, as well as high school bands all across the country, began to take over driving the "Marching Arts" bus. Irrespective of opinions on Amps, Electronics, etc... this is backwards!! I mean imagine if high school football was the main driving force influencing NFL on what decisions to make within "Major League" Football!! +1000. I totally agree. It's not a slam on high schools, but it is a missed opportunity for the Junior Drum corps activity. I wish we could fix that and make drum corps the pinnacle of design gain! ...and I would argue that the limits that the idiom place upon the corps have NOT resulted in innovative design being able to be produced. I just think that the shift in marching band designs that happened somewhere around the mid '90s resulted in designers wanting to use more tools from MB in drum corps. I hope that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 true...always two sides of the coin in almost everything I guess that I'm trying to opine that I think that what I proposed is what has happened to the drum corps activity. It's good for high school marching band, but bad for drum corps. I do not know who's fault this is, but it has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Now you are getting into the realm of what, IMO, is the real dilemma that exists if DCI is going to claim to be the Leader of the activity and "Marching Music Major League". DCI is not a career track for the instructors; high school and university bands are these instructors bread and butter. Do you see any other organizations which claim to be "Major League" having their coaches spend most of their time with high school teams, as their main paying jobs? Nope. So, it is not difficult to see that the activity which establishes the career track for these people, high school band jobs, is what is now driving the marching arts bus instead of DCI. Agreed! My thought is that the highest performing groups ( DCI groups) should also be the leader of design. If you don't do that, then we get well well performed marginal designs which basically turn off fans. Excellence in performance and capability does NOT equal a quality show or a quality design. Also, a complex design does NOT equal a quality design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musclebud Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) The points I highlighted above sort of highlight what the gap is in terms of tastes and interests of a lot of guys from the older days as compared to the current generation. In generations past, a lot of people got their training on how to play the instrument from within the activity. The corps took kids from the local community, gave them a pair of sticks or a horn, at a young age, and taught them to play. Most of the instructors were volunteer and did not have formal training or higher education in music. Many of the kids that grew up in that generation that were taught this way, really dug music and went on to pursue formal training and higher education in music and continued to teach drum corps. With each successive generation, this cycle repeated to the point where every corps out there has formally trained music educators, many of them with advanced degrees in music. At the same time, the kids attracted as performers are coming to corps with a very high level of playing ability and experience as performers. These factors have dramatically influenced music selection, arrangement, instrumentation, etc. This is a natural sort of evolution... one that should be encouraged to continue. The good thing is that there are still other outlets outside of DCI for people who prefer more traditional approaches. While you certainly make valid points I do take issue with a couple of them. "The good thing is that there are still other outlets outside of DCI for people who prefer more traditional approaches." is pretty hard to accept. The instrumentation that most of my generation of Drum Corps fans grew to love is rarely seen off of the football field. Yes there are trumpets and drums in orchestras, but that is about the only example of where you can see these instruments. The instruments that are being added to Drum Corps now have so many other outlets to be heard. I am thinking of the guitars, electronic keyboards and such that are a part of almost every thing you hear in every aspect of entertainment. Some kid works his or her tail off in a small practice room with a marimba or a tuba just to once again be drowned out by the cool kid with an electric bass and an amp. "At the same time, the kids attracted as performers are coming to corps with a very high level of playing ability and experience as performers." This is a completely true statement. Unfortunately the kids that have the greatest access to the necessary private lessons and good schools tend to have the parents that can fork out the big bucks needed to achieve this. Drum Corps may have at one time been a way to teach kids good values and keep them off of the streets, but is has become more and more an activity for those of privilege. So let me state the obvious...... drum corps is becoming less diverse and somewhat exclusive. Every year we see a new batch of stuff(instruments) on the field and it ain't cheap. Corps members dues have gone through the roof since I marched greatly outpacing inflation. There is no way I would have been able to afford to march, regardless of how hard I worked or how talented I was with the amount of cash that is now being extracted from the members. So what we end up with is fewer kids being able to enjoy the activity and becoming fans in the future. That is one way to kill the activity... no fans ... no reason to be there. So is the change natural evolution or is it some sort of experiment being forced upon the fans by a few genetic engineers who have become bored with what drum corps is all about. Maybe it is time for them to find a new outlet for their creativity and leave drum corps to drum corps fans. Edited August 28, 2011 by musclebud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 While you certainly make valid points I do take issue with a couple of them. "The good thing is that there are still other outlets outside of DCI for people who prefer more traditional approaches." is pretty hard to accept. The instrumentation that most of my generation of Drum Corps fans grew to love is rarely seen off of the football field. Yes there are trumpets and drums in orchestras, but that is about the only example of where you can see these instruments. The instruments that are being added to Drum Corps now have so many other outlets to be heard. I am thinking of the guitars, electronic keyboards and such that are a part of almost every thing you hear in every aspect of entertainment. Some kid works his or her tail off in a small practice room with a marimba or a tuba just to once again be drowned out by the cool kid with an electric bass and an amp. "At the same time, the kids attracted as performers are coming to corps with a very high level of playing ability and experience as performers." This is a completely true statement. Unfortunately the kids that have the greatest access to the necessary private lessons and good schools tend to have the parents that can fork out the big bucks needed to achieve this. Drum Corps may have at one time been a way to teach kids good values and keep them off of the streets, but is has become more and more an activity for those of privilege. So let me state the obvious...... drum corps is becoming less diverse and somewhat exclusive. Every year we see a new batch of stuff(instruments) on the field and it ain't cheap. Corps members dues have gone through the roof since I marched greatly outpacing inflation. There is no way I would have been able to afford to march, regardless of how hard I worked or how talented I was with the amount of cash that is now being extracted from the members. So what we end up with is fewer kids being able to enjoy the activity and becoming fans in the future. That is one way to kill the activity... no fans ... no reason to be there. So is the change natural evolution or is it some sort of experiment being forced upon the fans by a few genetic engineers who have become bored with what drum corps is all about. Maybe it is time for them to find a new outlet for their creativity and leave drum corps to drum corps fans. It seems like you might quite like DCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) While you certainly make valid points I do take issue with a couple of them. "The good thing is that there are still other outlets outside of DCI for people who prefer more traditional approaches." is pretty hard to accept. The instrumentation that most of my generation of Drum Corps fans grew to love is rarely seen off of the football field. Yes there are trumpets and drums in orchestras, but that is about the only example of where you can see these instruments. The instruments that are being added to Drum Corps now have so many other outlets to be heard. I am thinking of the guitars, electronic keyboards and such that are a part of almost every thing you hear in every aspect of entertainment. Some kid works his or her tail off in a small practice room with a marimba or a tuba just to once again be drowned out by the cool kid with an electric bass and an amp. "At the same time, the kids attracted as performers are coming to corps with a very high level of playing ability and experience as performers." This is a completely true statement. Unfortunately the kids that have the greatest access to the necessary private lessons and good schools tend to have the parents that can fork out the big bucks needed to achieve this. Drum Corps may have at one time been a way to teach kids good values and keep them off of the streets, but is has become more and more an activity for those of privilege. So let me state the obvious...... drum corps is becoming less diverse and somewhat exclusive. Every year we see a new batch of stuff(instruments) on the field and it ain't cheap. Corps members dues have gone through the roof since I marched greatly outpacing inflation. There is no way I would have been able to afford to march, regardless of how hard I worked or how talented I was with the amount of cash that is now being extracted from the members. So what we end up with is fewer kids being able to enjoy the activity and becoming fans in the future. That is one way to kill the activity... no fans ... no reason to be there. So is the change natural evolution or is it some sort of experiment being forced upon the fans by a few genetic engineers who have become bored with what drum corps is all about. Maybe it is time for them to find a new outlet for their creativity and leave drum corps to drum corps fans. DCA will and has changed as needed to accomondate its memebers which are far younger than ever....dci will continue to change as the world does...drum corps isnt immune to this although some think it is or should be...the world changes people change, trends change....thats life...the good and bad of it..younger people will want to put THeIR STAMP ON IT as in every walk of life.........for me it was a great year for drum corps from top to bottom Edited August 28, 2011 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) DCA will and has changed as need to accomondate its memebers which are far younger than ever....dci will continue to change as the world does...drum corps isnt immune to this although some think it is or should be...the world changes people change, trends change....thats life...the good and bad of it..younger people will want to put THeIR STAMP ON IT as in every walk of life.........for me it was a great year for drum corps from top to bottom It is not that I or many who think as I do are against Change; (see my previous posts for reference). What we are debating is where the current changes in DCI fall within these three categories below: 1) Change, just for the sake of change, usually never pans out very well (New Coke ring a bell?) *which, by the way, actually caused a market resurgence for "old" Coke. 2) Change to liven things up sometimes backfires with fans (DCI drawing for finalist step-off times), or sometimes makes things more exciting for fans (parity rules in NASCAR). 3) However, Change, when it actually improves on something, is always fine (adding face masks to football helmets). Edited August 28, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) It is not that I or many who think as I do are against Change; (see my previous posts for reference). It has to do with where that change falls within the three categories below: a) Change, just for the sake of change, usually never pans out very well (New Coke ring a bell?) *which, by the way, actually caused a market resurgence for "old" Coke. b) Change to liven things up sometimes backfires with fans (DCI drawing for finalist step-off times), or sometimes makes things more exciting for fans (parity rules in NASCAR). c) However, Change, when it actually improves on something, is always fine (adding face masks to football helmets). very true but all those things can also work just depends on an individuals perspective.......some or many do feel many of the newer drum corps approach is better or at least different and thats ok Edited August 28, 2011 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) very true but all those things can also work just depends on an individuals perspective.......some or many do feel many of the newer drum corps approach is better or at least different and thats ok When dealing within the "market", which in this case is a fan base, an individual flat does not matter. The collective whole of the fan base, that being the largest majority of those who spend their expendable income, is what matters to the bottom line more than appeasing one individual (or a small group of individuals). Unless, of course, you are attempting to purge the current fan base and appeal to a completely new fan base (which DCI might be attempting to do). Edited August 28, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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