Jeff Ream Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I completely agree. This is why my thoughts are now that DCI should not be the parent org... parent should be a different org with separate management team. Anyway, the fact that these orgs haven't merged long ago is baffling. Sure, there are a bit of conflicting interests here with initiatives of some DCI member orgs (USSBA comes to mind)... but I wonder if done right, how those couldn't be more complimentary than conflicting? Actually I understand why they didn't. Dci doesn't want to deal with scholastic units, BOA doesn't want to deal with independent units and Wgi doesn't want to deal with dci and boa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 There is more money out there than just selling tickets. Having the captive attention of hundreds of thousands of high school kids is gold. The current issue of limitations is simply understanding of an approach. It's like complaining you can't make butter when you're milking the cow by the horns. BOA has issues. I also am not too sold on their sort of philosophy (a bit too mushy for me). But, this is actually presents opportunity. WGI is the most solid of the three from a philosophical and operational perspective (though also the scale is different and it's cheapest to run). You miss my point. The money in your venture helps dci yes, but doesn't help the schools hosting band or indoor shows. Given how schools are cutting arts stuff left and right your plan does nothing to help the schools 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 You miss my point. The money in your venture helps dci yes, but doesn't help the schools hosting band or indoor shows. Given how schools are cutting arts stuff left and right your plan does nothing to help the schools How does anything change for these scholastic programs? Ticket sales are the small revenue here... but nothing should change for these show sponsor programs. Think beyond ticket revenues.... (the audience is more valuable than the show). Again, there's a fat cow sitting there, but they're milking the horns. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Actually I understand why they didn't. Dci doesn't want to deal with scholastic units, BOA doesn't want to deal with independent units and Wgi doesn't want to deal with dci and boa Yet they have the majority of the same audience, majority of the same partners, the majority of the same participants, majority of the same educators, majority of the same creators, majority of the same adjudicators... it is completely irresponsible that they are each doing their own thing, duplicating efforts... and each scraping by. Saving money is making money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 BOA is in trouble. USSBA is not. BOA is down the street from DCI and holds their finals and many other shows in exactly the same venues as DCI. Fry the fish already in the boat first... rather than planning recipes for the one you've yet to dig worms for. It ain't no book learnin'. I don't have much experience with HR. Please tell me more. You bring up points I have never considered. I'm sort of new to writing business plans... forgive me if it is not so clear to you. Maybe there is some business plan writing software you could recommend or maybe a seminar? It doesn't. I just have a soft spot for poor struggling multi-national law firms and want to do whatever I can to help them get a fair shake. The Mozilla Foundation started as a mission-based organization as a crazy clever scheme/quick fix work around for Google to support as a counterbalance to IE, structured in a way as not to expose Google to any similar anti-trust complaints or DOJ refusal of any pending/near-term acquisitions in the search revenue space until a key decision was reached by the courts, after which time Google would launch their own browser based on the Mozilla core... as their way to have their cake and another piece... and eating them both. Um... wait... nevermind. I don't know what I'm talking about. Haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hi Friends, Apparently my original comment was on the original topic and didn't transfer to the new topic, so please indulge me if repeat my thoughts. DCI is a function of the DCI Corps, the Corps are not a function of DCI. DCI was formed by the Corps to get away from the rigid, centralized VFW and American Legion rules and the lack of input from the Corps. It started with the breakaway by the Midwest Combine. SAC and Garfield joined shortly thereafter and they formed and own DCI (Of course Corps fold and are replaced). The DCI Dirctor answers to the Board of Directors, which is composed of the member Corps. Directors . The purpose of DCI is to do the national scheduling and providing judges. I do not know if they collect the Corps' share of show revenue and do the financial distribution. My point is the BOD has little or no reason to reverse this relationship. They've already been there and broke away from VFW and AL. and the chance of changing this system of organization has a chance of significant organizational change as close to zero as you can get. I appreciate people thinking about these things, but this subject long ago became, in my opinion, nothing more than self-indulgent mental mastur^^^^^^n and marketingbabble (may be worse than psychobabble),. On the subject of BOA, why in the world would the BOD want to take on an outside organization? What do they get out of it? DCI would have to add staff, which BOA would have to pay for, so why wouldn't they do it themselves. There are no economies of scale involved, just more work. I also committed to review the income tax return for the organization I volunteer with on HR, Legal and other matters, to see the relationship between expenses and revenue. (I will not mention who they are because as a volunteer, I don't want to appear to represent them without their authorization). Their expenses are covered by their revenue which comes mainly from show appearances, prize money awards, supportor donations and merchandise sales. The tax return Form 990, is a matter of public record and if there is a particular Corps one would like to look at, go to the IRS website or ask the Corps. Finally, if you have business or legal experience, why not volunteer to your favorite Corps? I've done all my work by phone and Email. Kevin Doherty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hi Friends, Apparently my original comment was on the original topic and didn't transfer to the new topic, so please indulge me if repeat my thoughts. DCI is a function of the DCI Corps, the Corps are not a function of DCI. DCI was formed by the Corps to get away from the rigid, centralized VFW and American Legion rules and the lack of input from the Corps. It started with the breakaway by the Midwest Combine. SAC and Garfield joined shortly thereafter and they formed and own DCI (Of course Corps fold and are replaced). The DCI Dirctor answers to the Board of Directors, which is composed of the member Corps. Directors . The purpose of DCI is to do the national scheduling and providing judges. I do not know if they collect the Corps' share of show revenue and do the financial distribution. My point is the BOD has little or no reason to reverse this relationship. They've already been there and broke away from VFW and AL. and the chance of changing this system of organization has a chance of significant organizational change as close to zero as you can get. I appreciate people thinking about these things, but this subject long ago became, in my opinion, nothing more than self-indulgent mental mastur^^^^^^n and marketingbabble (may be worse than psychobabble),. On the subject of BOA, why in the world would the BOD want to take on an outside organization? What do they get out of it? DCI would have to add staff, which BOA would have to pay for, so why wouldn't they do it themselves. There are no economies of scale involved, just more work. I also committed to review the income tax return for the organization I volunteer with on HR, Legal and other matters, to see the relationship between expenses and revenue. (I will not mention who they are because as a volunteer, I don't want to appear to represent them without their authorization). Their expenses are covered by their revenue which comes mainly from show appearances, prize money awards, supportor donations and merchandise sales. The tax return Form 990, is a matter of public record and if there is a particular Corps one would like to look at, go to the IRS website or ask the Corps. Finally, if you have business or legal experience, why not volunteer to your favorite Corps? I've done all my work by phone and Email. Kevin Doherty Kevin, no offense taken or intended, but... You're preaching to the choir on the history of DCI; most everyone who's in this discussion can cite it by memory. And since when has DCP been anything OTHER than mental mast********?? It's certainly true that this board, in and of itself, is of little use. But the discussion may bleed over to into areas that we can't think of. I see little wrong with earnest debate in thinking outside the box. Many of us (maybe falsely) believe that an all-volunteer organization can be impacted by one person - need I mention Mr. Cook again? Or any number of other volunteers who brought significant impact with them? I think you need to reconsider your BOA questions from the standpoint not of what they'll pay to connect with DCI but, rather, what they'll get. Streamlining and outsourcing their event production business may allow for those assets to be used for more productive tasks in BOA. BOA need not give up their identity or vision, they only contract out the drudgery work of scheduling and making venue agreements. Isn't that what DCI is good at? If DCI can offer that service to BOA, DCI is now better-utilizing their assets. What they charge BOA may well be less than BOA is now spending, even if DCI does have to hire more staff. For the organization that you're volunteering for (thanks for that!) their revenue sources are all dependent upon their corps' performance and popularity for their survival. Things change. Tastes change. Placement changes. What business structure does the corps have in place to financially survive the lean years when their MM's are young, their top caption head bolted, and they had to replace a cook truck? In that model if the corps struggles so does the money, and the cycle of death begins. This whole discussion is about securing a more stable, more consistent stream of revenue by developing supporting structure outside of DCI's normal "comfort" zone. I applaud your volunteering to the activity. And I find this thread fascinating and thought-provoking even if it doesn't lead to change at DCI next year. It's October... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) You miss my point. The money in your venture helps dci yes, but doesn't help the schools hosting band or indoor shows. Given how schools are cutting arts stuff left and right your plan does nothing to help the schools Jeff, what if the money saved by BOA by outsourcing their event production to DCI is used to establish a teaching/mentoring program for young performers? Isn't that helping BOA's vision and the schools that participate in their programs? Maybe more realistically, what if the money saved allows them to simply survive the competition from USSBA to offer contests at all? Two organizations, competing, will cover more of the country than will one singular operation. That helps schools, doesn't it? If the savings allows BOA to cut ticket prices, that helps doesn't it? Edited October 21, 2011 by garfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Actually I understand why they didn't. Dci doesn't want to deal with scholastic units, BOA doesn't want to deal with independent units and Wgi doesn't want to deal with dci and boa In this model, WGI and BOA don't have to deal with DCI. They deal with NewCo's DCI Events SPV. That org negotiates with WGI and BOA and DCI to provide a circuit under which they all can perform. They pay a fee. The inefficiencies of running three, separate tour operations almost guarantees that the efficiency gained by combining will result in savings for all three units. DCI has expertise in running tours. The performing units get what they pay for, and cheaper than they're paying for it now. If personalities clash and revenues go up, CEO's learn how to keep their mouths shut. Edited October 21, 2011 by garfield 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Garfield, Thanks for your response and your tolerance for disagreement. First, I want to emphasize the inportance of volunteering. You don't have to go on the road, you can do it from home (I used to be able to give cash, but since I got married, guess what?). If we spent as much time volunteering as we did doing MM, and I don't mean Marching Member, we would be doing more good for the activity than trying to show who is smarter, or more knowledgable, or ruder than the other. Some of the MM that goes on is a few steps short of Einstein's definition of insanity, which I will paraphrase as doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Problem solving systems, such as Deming, also say never try to solve a problem that you have no control over, and you never solve a problem, but only a root cause. Nevertheless this process starts with problem identification and you must root out the wrong problem identification before proceeding to further steps in the process. In other words MM is a useless waste of time when one could be expending one's efforts to help your Corps. I am not mindless of the disadvantages of lower ranked and smaller Corps in competing against the G(whatever that is) 7 or 8. These organizations may depend on volunteers more than the Gs. But, with the Recession causing less discretionary spending, I don't know that the lesser Corps (placement and classification-wise) have come into jeopardy (correct me if I'm wrong). We've had successful seasons during this period. However if a Corps is formed like a Mickey Rooney movie - hey, kids. let's put on a show (hey, kids, let's form a Drum Corps), the risk is not planned for, which is why a business plan is needed to anticipate downturns. If a key staff member bolts and you have no replacement plan, you may fail. You must also anticipate the loss of subsidies such as Lottery $. Volunteers may then be the key for survival. I'll stop now. As Popeye said " Enough is too much ". Kevin Doherty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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