What would happen if....

[TastyWaves]

Some friends and I were having a spirited debate about the state of judging.

I wont specify, but one opinion was that the judging is pretty fair and not necessarily biased toward 1 or 2 groups. (The rise of Crown who was once a "Bottom feeder", and BD 2005 who was dropped, and Cadets 2004/06).

Another was that some corps can do anything they want and still land in the top 3.

What do you guys think of the scenario?

[MikeN]

In a Cavs/Pio swap like you say, I'm guessing both would end up in their actual respective ranges, despite whatever uniform they were wearing. Even as a fan, it's pretty easy to tell in general groupings where each corps will fall, as far as quality goes. While BD, for instance, may gain or lose a place based on their current reputation, I think you'd be hard pressed to convincingly argue they aren't a top 6 hornline practically every single year.

(As a drummer, I have a pretty vast collection of drum charts, and it's pretty clear each year who's books are head and shoulders above the others. And you'd be amazed just how vast the gulf can get between the top and bottom sets of charts.)

However, in the fine details within each general group, I do believe that the reputations involved do play a part. Especially in the nebulous, never fully understood and easily manipulated General Effect captions, perception can sometimes become reality. And when groups are so tightly clustered, it can make a difference as to who finishes where, for sure.

Anyways, just my opinion.

Mike

[BRASSO]

I think its an urban myth that judges that keep touching their scoring sheets can go blind.

[Grumpy]

The first two options in your poll pretty much say the same thing, but my thinking is exactly the opposite-the corps dressed as Pio (in reality, the Cavies) would still be scored near the bottom, and the corps dressed as Cavies (in reality, Pio) would be scored near the top. One reasoning for this, as we've heard before, is that the corps dressed as Pio, going on at or near the beginning, would be scored low because the judges are "leaving room" for the corps that appear later to score higher. The poll also indicates that these judges are getting "first reads" on these shows. IMO, judging is supposed to be neutral, unbiased, etc. but I think it's nearly impossible for any of the judges to not take into account where a particular corps is "supposed" to finish and score them accordingly. Even if a top 6 corps happens to have an off night and a semi-finalist outperforms them by delivering the best show of their lives, I'm not sure that the judges wouldn't give the top 6 corps a "pass" and still score them higher.

[Jeff Ream]

honestly, uniform means nothing. the quality of design and performance are the keys. otherwise you wouldn't see "names" have off years now and then

[glory]

Highwater alert!

Cavies tend to be taller, so those Pio trousers might not reach past the ankle. Not sure how this might factor into the GE score. Also, the stilts would be a dead giveaway.

HH

[ibexpercussion]

You need another choice of "They will both place as they normally would."

A better question would be if you did that with corps 9-16 what would be the result.

[MisterA]

I think the colorguard might give it away at a first glance. Since Cavies are all male, and Pioneer all female colorguards, that would be a dead giveaway right from the start.

I think Cavies dressed as Pioneer would probably score in the mid 90s, close to what they normally do. If Pioneer performed close to last, they might actually place with a score in the mid to high 70s.

[BAC oboist]

There'd be a lot of tripping.

[MotorCityMusician]

Im sure the judges would notice girls in Cavies uniforms.