Stu Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) What are you talking about? It is like you don't read a thing I write, and roll with this idea that I believe there should be only 8 corps. Where have I ever mentioned eliminating corps outside of the top 8? It might not be just the top 8 that you want to keep in DCI; BUT there certainly is a high performance line somewhere within DCI in which you desire to eliminate corps that do not have the best of the best involved within their units. Your own words prove that to be the case. In post #302 you wrote, and I quote: "Is there a place for corps that take kids off the streets and teach them how to play or give kids with a wide range of talent the opportunity to perform? I think there should be..but don't believe DCI is the best place for that. It creates too much of a split focus and dilutes the brand." Thus your words fall right in line with the G7 proposal requesting DCI to completely eliminate all OC support. Edited December 6, 2011 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 While their are musical similarities, the differences are glaring: a) The NY Phil, Chicago Symph, etc... pay professional adult performers; and b) Their official 501c3 IRS designations are completely different than the official designation DCI. So, it is a fallacy to compare professional symphonies with youth oriented drum corps. If, however, DCI officially changed its 501c3 designation, paid professional adults to perform like the NY Phil (or like the PGA), then I would be in line with many of your positions. DCI and NY Philharmonic, Chicago Symphony, etc. Actually ARE categorized in the same class by the IRS... Category A - Arts, Culture, and Humanities. Guess what... NY Phil also has the subclass A25 Arts Education/Schools... while DCI and none of the drum corps have such a classification. The IRS views DCI and most drum corps as simply performing arts groups. Not youth programs, not charities, not educational programs... just bands. DCI's full classification is Category A - Arts, Culture, and Humanities / A6C (Music Groups, Bands, Ensembles). So, to you the youth who have very poor musical instruction, or no musical instruction at all, within a scholastic environment are not to be served by any corps within DCI. But... that service is exactly how DCI, and the DCI corps directors, present their case to the IRS as a 501c3. The competitive circuit of DCI is a very poor classroom for teaching kids fundamentals of music. Not only that, it muddles the brand.... how can the same organization claiming to be the major league of an activity also be the one teaching kids fundamentals within the same league? It makes no sense. You don't teach kids how to play football in the NFL. You know you just completely contradicted yourself because in you last sentence you stated, and I quote, "Again, the role of drum corps is not to teach kids core skills anymore" I don't contradict myself. I do think there should be a place for kids to learn... but don't believe this should be within the DCI competitive circuit. Then DCI needs to change their *official* 501c3 designation from a youth charitable organization and officially register with the IRS with designations like the NY Phil and the PGA. See above. Again... neither DCI, nor any corps out there is registered with the IRS as either a youth or a charitable organization. I am not denying that there is a very high quality of musical performance from the top corps in DCI; and that is great. The WC OC split is very desirable to me. However, those who *only* desire that high WC performance level, *only* want to provide for the best of the best youth, and feel that DCI providing for corps like Genesis, Legends, and the Racine Scouts actually, and I quote, "splits the focus and dilutes the brand", are completely egocentric and selfish. Is DCI marketed as marching music's major league or not? If so, you cannot have groups that are not performing at at least a higher level than any other marching music groups out there. If not... the whole premise is gone. There needs to be a minimum standard... and that should be better than the best corps-style marching bands out there. Why? Because if you read the DCI mission, if you read the DCI 501c3 designation, it is officially about providing a place for youth to become involved with performing arts; providing a place for *all* youth, not just the best of the best. I've read these... seems you have not. Want to know what DCI's OFFICIAL mission statement is, as registered with the IRS? DRUM CORP SHOWS Exactly that... 3 words... written in all caps. A 3 ####### word all caps mission statement. The simplicity of that is perfect. What I am talking about is DCI getting focused on its ACTUAL mission... the one that it originally established itself with... DRUM CORPS SHOWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 It might not be just the top 8 that you want to keep in DCI; BUT there certainly is a high performance line somewhere within DCI in which you desire to eliminate corps that do not have the best of the best involved within their units. Your own words prove that to be the case. In post #302 you wrote, and I quote: "Is there a place for corps that take kids off the streets and teach them how to play or give kids with a wide range of talent the opportunity to perform? I think there should be..but don't believe DCI is the best place for that. It creates too much of a split focus and dilutes the brand." Thus your words fall right in line with the G7 proposal requesting DCI to completely eliminate any support whatsoever. Yes. If a corps is not better than the best high school marching band out there... then DCI, Marching Music's Major League, is not really the right place for them. Maybe there is a need for a minor league? Maybe DCA can fill that role better... but I do not believe the DCI circuit is the best venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 What are you talking about? It is like you don't read a thing I write, and roll with this idea that I believe there should be only 8 corps. Where have I ever mentioned eliminating corps outside of the top 8? you asked who the draw was for that show. None were top 8. However, Crossmen fall outside of your 15 World Class criteria, as does Surf. for someone who mocks others reading skills, perhaps you need to look in the mirror before you make that accusation 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Yes. If a corps is not better than the best high school marching band out there... then DCI, Marching Music's Major League, is not really the right place for them. Maybe there is a need for a minor league? Maybe DCA can fill that role better... but I do not believe the DCI circuit is the best venue. you are mixing scholastic and independent groups and their missions. While WGi has scholastic and independent groups, they are very clear in the role of each. You aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 DCI and NY Philharmonic, Chicago Symphony, etc. Actually ARE categorized in the same class by the IRS... Category A - Arts, Culture, and Humanities. Guess what... NY Phil also has the subclass A25 Arts Education/Schools... while DCI and none of the drum corps have such a classification. The IRS views DCI and most drum corps as simply performing arts groups. Not youth programs, not charities, not educational programs... just bands. DCI's full classification is Category A - Arts, Culture, and Humanities / A6C (Music Groups, Bands, Ensembles). The competitive circuit of DCI is a very poor classroom for teaching kids fundamentals of music. Not only that, it muddles the brand.... how can the same organization claiming to be the major league of an activity also be the one teaching kids fundamentals within the same league? It makes no sense. You don't teach kids how to play football in the NFL. I don't contradict myself. I do think there should be a place for kids to learn... but don't believe this should be within the DCI competitive circuit. See above. Again... neither DCI, nor any corps out there is registered with the IRS as either a youth or a charitable organization. Is DCI marketed as marching music's major league or not? If so, you cannot have groups that are not performing at at least a higher level than any other marching music groups out there. If not... the whole premise is gone. There needs to be a minimum standard... and that should be better than the best corps-style marching bands out there. I've read these... seems you have not. Want to know what DCI's OFFICIAL mission statement is, as registered with the IRS? DRUM CORP SHOWS Exactly that... 3 words... written in all caps. A 3 ####### word all caps mission statement. The simplicity of that is perfect. What I am talking about is DCI getting focused on its ACTUAL mission... the one that it originally established itself with... DRUM CORPS SHOWS. one point. people DO learn football in the NFL, because the differences between the NFL, college and high school are vast. and DCI's mission is far more than just running drum corps shows. Maybe you should read the mission statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) Is DCI marketed as marching music's major league or not? If so, you cannot have groups that are not performing at at least a higher level than any other marching music groups out there. If not... the whole premise is gone. There needs to be a minimum standard... and that should be better than the best corps-style marching bands out there. This is kind of goofy: the best college baseball teams could compete with professional baseball teams. Plenty of high school wind ensembles could outplay college music programs. EPL teams get beat by League 1 teams in tournaments. In ANY competitive activity you'll have some teams that over-achieve and some teams that under-achieve: there will always be a last place, and there will always be a decent sized achievement gap from 1st to last. If your standard is "any DCI corps must be a higher level than the best BOA and WGI groups," there wouldn't be enough DCI corps to sustain a tour. You are REALLY getting too hung up on a marketing slogan. Surely someone with business experience understand that a marketing catch phrase is not gospel: * Budweiser, as far as I know, is not affiliated with any sort of royalty, let alone Kingship * M&M's have indeed melted in my hand on occasion * you can't literally touch someone while calling someone from an AT&T phone * Maxwell house frequently tastes poorly when you get down to the end of a cup: certainly the last drop * PLENTY of people eat Wheaties without being athletic Champions The list goes on. "Marching Music's Major League" is a catchy slogan, and not meant to be dissected and over-analyzed. Edited December 6, 2011 by perc2100 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 you asked who the draw was for that show. None were top 8. However, Crossmen fall outside of your 15 World Class criteria, as does Surf. for someone who mocks others reading skills, perhaps you need to look in the mirror before you make that accusation I never talked about eliminating them... just changing the classes... and world class and open class would still be on same ticket. If restructuring things... you should not assume I think compensation structure for open class should remain as it is now. I have suggested before that each corps should negotiate independently with the tour operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Is DCI marketed as marching music's major league or not? If so, you cannot have groups that are not performing at at least a higher level than any other marching music groups out there. If not... the whole premise is gone. There needs to be a minimum standard... and that should be better than the best corps-style marching bands out there. Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. While the NY Phil, PGA, etc... have youth educational outlets, their Major Symphony or Major League consists not of youth, but of Paid Adult Professionals (which is really the only way to secure the best of the best). So, I would be in agreement with many of your ideas if: a) The DCI WC was structured as a real Major League with paid adult pros (like the PGA); and b) The DCI OC was structured as the educational outlet. And for the record, high schools being able to out perform pros is a reality: There are many HS and College Baseball Teams which could destroy some MLB Farm Teams (which is akin to a top BOA band being able to out perform some DCI OC corps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Yes. If a corps is not better than the best high school marching band out there... then DCI, Marching Music's Major League, is not really the right place for them. Maybe there is a need for a minor league? Maybe DCA can fill that role better... but I do not believe the DCI circuit is the best venue. But DCI IS the best venue; it is called the Open Class!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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