markdewine Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 In the Marine Corps, bologna is known as "round steak." Now, regarding the concept that old retro ideas are worthless...check out the new movie, "The Artist". Black and white silent movie. Gee, that went out of style more than eighty years ago. Surely no one will go to see a movie like THAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) In the Marine Corps, bologna is known as "round steak." Now, regarding the concept that old retro ideas are worthless...check out the new movie, "The Artist". Black and white silent movie. Gee, that went out of style more than eighty years ago. Surely no one will go to see a movie like THAT! well as far as the movie yes ..artistically but there was a mad rush of people wanting their money back when they realised it was silent also..lol Edited January 27, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ...Now, regarding the concept that old retro ideas are worthless... Who said that? No one is saying that. Old and retro is a description, not a judgment. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 George Hopkins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Oh Contraire. Baloney is a meal if you having nothing else to eat, and you are hungry. And its a meal if Filet Mignon is not available, but this is all beside the point. People can state that Drum Corps has changed. They can comment on whether or not those changes in their view are for the better or for the worse in their opinion, or something less impactful. But they tend to jump the shark when they state that a marchers level of enjoyment is any less or more for that marcher compared to a) someone's experience from an earlier era or B) compares the same experience with someone marching right alongside that marcher. It can't be compared. My experience marching Drum Corps was exhilerating for me personally. It doesn't msatter what era I marched in. My experience was probably better than others I marched with, but I don't really know that.Nobody does. Likewise, the creature comforts of today thst marchers have at their disposal does not in of itself make their experience in doing Drum Corps better for them than mine. Nor does the lack of same in my era make my experience in doing Corps less enjoyable for me than the experience current marchers receive. Thats just nonsense. One's personal experience can not be adequately compared with anothers evaluation of the Drum Corps experience for them. Not across different eras. We can't even adequately compare marchers experiences between and amomg marchers of today either. I don't compare my level of exhilaration in marching Drum Corps with anyone else's. I'm in no position to do that. No one else can compare their experience... good or bad.... with mine either. Frankly, its an impossible exercise, because its so personal. No matter when we marched, or who we marched with, or marched beside. If you think bologna is a meal... please never run a drum corps. My comment wasn't on level of enjoyment, but on quality of experience. I am not talking about the intangibles, but the quality of the highly tangible... food, transportation, equipment, education, health, safety, etc. The standards of these are now are so much higher compared to years past. This is simply fact. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) If you think bologna is a meal... please never run a drum corps. My comment wasn't on level of enjoyment, but on quality of experience. I am not talking about the intangibles, but the quality of the highly tangible... food, transportation, equipment, education, health, safety, etc. The standards of these are now are so much higher compared to years past. This is simply fact. We agree that the creature comforts afforded marchers in DCI, DCA are much better today than in previous eras. This is " a fact ". It is also " a fact " that marchers also pay way, way more in income for this " experience" today too. Also, the notion that an Executive Director of Corps could make over $100,000 in income, would have been unthinkable and mind boggling back then as well, lets not forget. Nobody worked full time in Drum Corps. So the " experience " for staff is much better today too re. income and creature comforts they derive doing Drum Corps these days as well. But my comment above however was more geared to be certain that people undertsood that the experience of doing Drum Corps and the personal experience worth of that endeavor can not be compared among marchers of yesteryear, nor among marchers of today, and then state which experience " was " better ". We can compare the DIFFERENCES. Thats on solid ground it would seem to me. But not what a marcher received out of the experience as being " better ". What one gets out of the experience of doing Drum Corps is highly personal in nature and can not be compared quantitatively with anyone else's experience. Not at all, imo. I've had former marchers I marched with tell me that if it was not for doing Drum Corps they'd " be dead or in jail now ". It would be the height of arrogance as well as a mischaracterization for me to state that my "experience" in doing Drum Corps was "better" or more gratifying than theirs..... creature comforts or no creature comforts, training or no training, instrumentation, busses, etc... 'doesn't really matter when it comes to the overall " experience" of doing Drum Corps for an individual. Its all highly personal, and varies from individual to individual. And the era they matched irrelevent to it all, imo. Edited January 28, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 We agree that the creature comforts afforded marchers in DCI, DCA are much better today than in previous eras. This is " a fact ". It is also " a fact " that marchers also pay way, way more in income for this " experience" today too. Basic health, nutrition and safety issues are not creature comforts. But that is another discussion entirely. Regarding tour fees, it is actually not all that different. Looking at actual numbers is misleading, there has been some considerable amount of inflation since DCI was founded and corps started doing national tours. If you look at the adjusted numbers, it isn't all that bad. For example, from 1972 until 2011, the rate of inflation change is 438%. $400 in 1972 would be... 1982 - $923 1992 - $1,342 2002 - $1,722 2012 - $2,152 US Inflation Calculator ------------------- Let's take specifically from 1994 (that is the max historical range the EIA has for diesel).... The same figure reference above would be $1,418 in 1994 and $2,152 in 2012, representing 51.8% rate of change. Diesel fuel prices within that same range are $1.10/gal in 1994 and $3.78 in 2012, representing a 341% rate of change. This means that diesel fuel prices have outpaced inflation by more 289.2%. On top of this, you have food prices that also outpace inflation. What I am getting at is that, in the context of inflation and the rate of change in fuel and food prices, drum corps are doing an admirable job of keeping tour fees down. It should be obvious to anyone looking at the figures that while the costs of producing a tour have gone up considerably, the proportion of this cost that is covered, on average, by the participant is probably at the lowest it has ever been. I'd like to see some ways to lower this even further, and do think it is possible with a bit more diversification of revenues... but the directors of corps out there are busting their ### to keep this as low as possible. Again, actual numbers are meaningless.... it is only the adjusted numbers and in the context of increases in food, fuel and salaries that you can really see the correct picture. Also, the notion that an Executive Director of Corps could make over $100,000 in income, would have been unthinkable and mind boggling back then as well, lets not forget. Nobody worked full time in Drum Corps. Firstly, $100,000 is far below what should be the salary of a non-profit executive director responsible for an organization with the budget range we are talking about. This doesn't even include the insane time requirements, responsibilities and liabilities connected with the position. But, to put this in context... $100k now would have been $18,500 in 1972. There are areas of the country that $100k isn't that great of a salary for a position requiring much less knowledge, experience or commitment. I would argue that salaries should be higher... and this would be a good use of increased revenues. It is pretty much essential to the sustainability of the activity that qualified individuals remain a part of these organizations and that the next generation coming up sees this as a viable career opportunity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Preface: I would ironically like to... Blah, blah, blah... Steve Bayt On Facebook You know. For someone who so... lengthily... details what's wrong with drum corps and how to fix it, you certainly don't seem all that interested in backing up or defending your ideas. Drive-by rants don't tend to affect much change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) On top of this, you have food prices that also outpace inflation. What I am getting at is that, in the context of inflation and the rate of change in fuel and food prices, drum corps are doing an admirable job of keeping tour fees down. It should be obvious to anyone looking at the figures that while the costs of producing a tour have gone up considerably, the proportion of this cost that is covered, on average, by the participant is probably at the lowest it has ever been. Though many here will quibble (or vehemently disagree) with Dan's posts, I respect his thoughts because he backs up his arguments with sourced numbers to substantiate his contentions. That's my nature, too (and my job), so I relate to his presentation and arguments. That said, there's some real data available to show actual numbers relating to drum corps, not the entire population as does the CPI data. (As a sidebar, the CPI data includes things like the deflationary effects of computer prices, and the fact that, due to tech advances, you get so much more bang for your buck spent - a deflationary impact. The actual number reflecting who buys what is the PCE deflator. The core rate of inflation is important because it subtracts from CPI the volatile food and energy prices. Considering that such a large portion of a corps' expenses ARE food and energy, the difference between CPI and core CPI would better reflect the inflation in corps' touring costs. End sidebar.) In 1992, CBC announced that 21% of their income came from "member fees". My closest guess is that, today, fees at Cadets are closer to $3000 than $2000 per season. Times 150 kids that's upwards of $450,000 in income for a corps who's 990 reflects in the neighborhood of $1million of revenue. That's a chunk more than 21% from member fees. In 1989, DCI paid out $869,000 to corps. In 2009 that number was $2,2-million, an increase of 4.75% per year compared to CPI increase during the same time of about 4.2% In 1994, the average corps paid $5.73 per person, per corps, per day for food, and they served 5 meals a day. In 2010 Crown fed their corps 4 meals a day for $9.00 per person, a 2.5% annual increase (and a testament to feeding kids extremely well; calorie output today is undoubtedly more than in 1994, yet they're eating only four meals). On average a corps spent $55,000 per year on food in 1994. Crown did it in 2010 for about $85,000. Per person, per season, members spent about $314 per season on food. In 2010 it was closer to $425. In 1994 fuel/oil cost $1.36/gal and the average corps spent $18,200 on 15,000 gallons used over a tour of about 11,000 miles miles. Today that 11,000 miles would cost about $44,000, an increase of about 5.03% per year (or approx .8% more than the CPI over the same time frame). At the time, MPG of those old buses and truck was less than 1 MPG. Today, it's not uncommon for corps to travel 25,000 to 30,000 miles in a season, and the average MPG of current day buses and trucks is close to 5 MPG. EDIT: In 1989 a ticket to Championship Finals cost $20. By 1994 it was $30. In 2011 it was $125 for premium seats. Annually, that's an 8.7% increase, a nearly double the rate of CPI inflation. EDIT 2: In 1989, approx. 80% of DCI's revenue came from programs and services. In 2009 that number was closer to 97%. *data sources available upon request. Edited January 29, 2012 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. D. from da 313 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Are we trying to save it or thying to figure out when it will die? I forget ( I havent one of these threads in months, OK, weeks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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