Can you lose your World Class Status?

[PurpleKnights]

What do you mean "share the wealth?" What wealth? Why should any organization that busts their ##### every year to balance their budgets give their hard earned dollars to another organization? Socialism doesn't work, especially in drum corps.

Save the politics. Also, that's exactly what the NFL does and it works very well.

[CSGreen]

Open Class corps are only paid at World Class (non-premiere) events only. There is not an end of the season payout other than what hasn't been paid during the course of the season. Of course, even the corps at the top end of the payout aren't being paid enough to cover their expenses to just get to that show in most cases.

A corps in WC should do anything and everything they can to maintain that status if you are solely looking at appearance fees and scheduling.

Edited July 2, 2012 by CSGreen

[Grumpy]

Financial health and performance level are completely two different things. You can perform poorly on the field, but have a great financial plan. You can also perform great and be on the brink of bankruptcy. When the corps takes the field for competition, they are not competing on financial stability. One could argue that your show will suffer if you don’t have the means to finance your corps, but your finances are not on the judging books. If a world class corps only has 56 member s on the field, with an average age of 13, how can they compete with a corps that has 135 on the field with an average age of 19, regardless of their financial status? Wouldn’t it be a better experience for everyone if they competed with corps close to their level? What motivates you to improve, if no matter how hard you work or improve, you will be dead last at every show? I really think that there should be something to drive the financial health of drum corps, but it should be separate from your performance class.

Unfortunate though it may be, I don't think you can separate the financial health of a corps from this debate. There are too many instances in the not-too-distant past about corps living on PB & J for the end of tour, or of one corps stepping up to the plate and feeding another because the latter was out of money. There are certainly corps like Blue Devils B and SCVC, and others, who could certainly compete and are probably financially healthy enough to move to WC, but their choice is to remain in OC. Whatever their reasons, that decision does not appear to have hurt their corps. For some, the decision to remain in OC may just be that they have learned how to "live within their means". The corps that make up the bottom tier of WC are providing the experience of a full tour and everything that goes along with it. Several years ago at the Friends of DCI breakfast during championship week, we had the privilege of having a young man from Pioneer join us at our table. From our conversation with him, he will never forget that summer and it didn't make one iota of difference where they placed. Spend a few minutes some time with the kids in these corps, I would love to hear from some of the parents of kids that were in some of these corps and share some of the experiences your kids had.

[Kamarag]

Save the politics. Also, that's exactly what the NFL does and it works very well.

What the NFL does is called revenue sharing. In order to share revenue, you have to have it in spades. Additionally, it only applies to certain kinds of revenue. You also have to consider that NFL teams each have an equal number of home and road games (playoffs not included), and there must be a certain number of teams to keep the league intact.

DCI isn't like that, never has been, and never will be. What you are asking is for a corps like the Blue Devils to subsidize a corps like <insert lower-level, struggling corps here>. The Blue Devils already fund so much more than the A corps, why is it their responsibility to fun someone else's corps that can barely stand on it's own?

The facts are pretty simple. The upper level tier, let's call them the G7, don't need the others to survive. The want them around, but not so much that they should be funding the others.

Comparing DCI to any kind of sport is ludicrous, despite the "marching major league" moniker. When the corps start bringing in millions upon millions in revenue, we can readdress the situation.

[PurpleKnights]

What the NFL does is called revenue sharing. In order to share revenue, you have to have it in spades. Additionally, it only applies to certain kinds of revenue. You also have to consider that NFL teams each have an equal number of home and road games (playoffs not included), and there must be a certain number of teams to keep the league intact.

DCI isn't like that, never has been, and never will be. What you are asking is for a corps like the Blue Devils to subsidize a corps like <insert lower-level, struggling corps here>. The Blue Devils already fund so much more than the A corps, why is it their responsibility to fun someone else's corps that can barely stand on it's own?

The facts are pretty simple. The upper level tier, let's call them the G7, don't need the others to survive. The want them around, but not so much that they should be funding the others.

Comparing DCI to any kind of sport is ludicrous, despite the "marching major league" moniker. When the corps start bringing in millions upon millions in revenue, we can readdress the situation.

I'm not saying DCI could or should do anything similar. I'm saying his comment was stupid.

[Goldsmith1210]

Save the politics. Also, that's exactly what the NFL does and it works very well.

"Politics" aside, I think I failed to make my point. I am extremely passionate about this aspect of drum corps.

I think sometimes we get so caught up in the competitive aspect of the activity so much we forget what drum corps is really about. Education.

This is a youthactivity, not professional sports. How do you go to a non-profit organization and say, "I'm sorry, you can only spend X amount of dollars in service of your kids this year because X organization can only spend X amount and that's not fair to them."

I understand the salary cap in professional sports, but it wouldn't work in this setting.

Organizations that struggle finalcially should be emulating what the long term successful corps are doing. Carolina Crown is a perfect example of a forward thinking, innovative organization that has created self-sustaining successful business ventures to support their corps. I applaud them for that.

I also applaud corps like Pioneer that lives within it's means and introduces new kids to the activity year after year.

I DO NOT applaud corps that live above their means, rise competitively quickly, then burn out leaving many people in and out of the activity with a bitter taste in their mouth.

[perc2100]

What the NFL does is called revenue sharing. In order to share revenue, you have to have it in spades. Additionally, it only applies to certain kinds of revenue. You also have to consider that NFL teams each have an equal number of home and road games (playoffs not included), and there must be a certain number of teams to keep the league intact.

Not to mention salary caps, the majority of the annual NFL schedule is either home or close/regional, etc. The biggest thing that I think people don't quite understand, is that to "share the wealth" there actually has to be wealth in drum corps: there really isn't. Blue Devils raise a lot of money annually because they fund three drum corps, two of which frequently or annually travel across the country to compete: same with SCV. Drum corps is not a profit business, and I suspect most people have a misconception regarding how much cash/revenue drum corps have on hand.

The facts are pretty simple. The upper level tier, let's call them the G7, don't need the others to survive. The want them around, but not so much that they should be funding the others.

If anything, it's the opposite: lower tiered corps need the upper tiered corps to survive. If Pacific Crest hosts a show with no Finalists, it would not be as well attended show, they would have problems keeping consistent sponsors & show sights, etc. I would imagine annual attendance would gradually drop, and at some point sooner than later it would become cost prohibitive to host a show, corps would make less money in the long run, etc. The upper tiered corps benefit the lower tiered corps, especially when it comes to hosting shows. There are other benefits that bleed over from upper tiered to lower tiered corps as well that I won't get into here.

Comparing DCI to any kind of sport is ludicrous, despite the "marching major league" moniker. When the corps start bringing in millions upon millions in revenue, we can readdress the situation.

Exactly

[argonaut]

I just think that there needs to be a clear path to earning and maintaining your World Class Status. Pioneer is a good example of a corps that has not cracked the top 12 in quite some time, but have remained consistent. They have not had major membership reductions, every year. While they have been consistently in the bottom of the pack, they would be at the top of the Open Class group. I didn't see them last year, but have seen them many times in the previous years. They deliver a World Class show every year. My concern is how long does a corps have to deteriorate before it is moved to open class? The status of World Class has lost its Integrity if it is a meaningless distinction, maintained by a good old boy network, regardless of the corps performance quality. There are clearly corps that deserve to be called World Class, but should you be world class for life until you fold?

[jonnyboy]

DCI is not a cutthroat all-or-nothing competition. Every corps in DCI benefits from every other corps in DCI. Fewer corps means fewer shows, fewer matched opponents, fewer potential audience members. If a corps shuts down, every other corps in DCI loses something. The smaller DCI gets, the *more* corps will need to share and help each other out.

Here Here.

If anything, it's the opposite: lower tiered corps need the upper tiered corps to survive. If Pacific Crest hosts a show with no Finalists, it would not be as well attended show, they would have problems keeping consistent sponsors & show sights, etc. I would imagine annual attendance would gradually drop, and at some point sooner than later it would become cost prohibitive to host a show, corps would make less money in the long run, etc. The upper tiered corps benefit the lower tiered corps, especially when it comes to hosting shows. There are other benefits that bleed over from upper tiered to lower tiered corps as well that I won't get into here.

Although I do agree with your logic, please remember not all corps run shows as part of their money making endeavors. You do need Top 12 corps (the more and higher placing the better) to have profitable shows, and the shows do need to make money so people will keep putting them on.

Since corps are all separate entities and don't cost DCI, the rule for survival of DCI and the activity HAS TO BE the More the Merrier.

[argonaut]

While it is true that the financial health of a drum corps is important, how big of an impact should that have on World Class Status. Should it be more important than the corps performance. Should it be more important than the educational impact it has on the members? What is the point of calling a wealthy drum corps world class if it can barely produce a drum corps show, doesn't compete with anyone and only serves less than 48 members. Being called World Class should mean more than being able to balance the books.