corpsband Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Maybe there could be a 'fan choice' benefit so that if the corps that winds the most fan choice awards (or figured as a percentage of the shows they compete in...or something else...just thinking off the top) is not in finals they get to do an exhibition. That would be really cool to see. OP's idea = not good. why punish corps who works their butts off all season just to MAKE finals. OTOH MikeD's idea is a great one. Getting to perform in finals because the fans want to see you is an awesome idea. Slight modification -- make it the highest number of votes for a non-finalist corps. that way there's ALWAYS a fan-favorite exhibition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 There's no "deserve" to be in Finals. 12 has always been an arbitrary number. An argument can always be made that X+1 deserves to be in. The number of finalists is what it is. My personal choice would be to have a top 10 + 2 exhibitions. But I think you would have to set the vote counting ahead of Finals week, if for nothing else then to allow parents / fans of those two corps time to get tickets if need be and allow corps to arrange additional housing / etc. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 OP's idea = not good. why punish corps who works their butts off all season just to MAKE finals. OTOH MikeD's idea is a great one. Getting to perform in finals because the fans want to see you is an awesome idea. Slight modification -- make it the highest number of votes for a non-finalist corps. that way there's ALWAYS a fan-favorite exhibition. Nice tweak!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 To the OP: What? You don't think the most-technically proficient corps IS the most entertaining? Heresy, I say. Heresy. The only way this proposal will see the light of day is if only the top-6 that you identified get paid and all the others do exhibition. S'not gonna happen. No particular offense intended, but if Cesario can't get corps to be more entertaining, it's doubtful a stadium full of fans will. (You know, with their completely unqualified opinions and all...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 OP's idea = not good. why punish corps who works their butts off all season just to MAKE finals. OTOH MikeD's idea is a great one. Getting to perform in finals because the fans want to see you is an awesome idea. Slight modification -- make it the highest number of votes for a non-finalist corps. that way there's ALWAYS a fan-favorite exhibition. But what if I think the most entertaining corps is a top-6 corps? Do I have to choose a second? Should I care? How could such a vote be inclusive and non-biased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm thinking that entry into finals probably shouldn't be left to the fans for various reasons. However, a fan SMS vote for "Fan's Choice" award at each show would be KILLER. Real time voting incentivizes fans to participate AND provides an opportunity for show sponsors to get fans opted-in to receiving further marketing messages. You could even charge $0.05 per vote to discourage spamming. Come on, show sponsors! Do it! Show sponsors? Come on, S, you know that DCI makes the rules. Show sponsors don't have that kind of autonomy at a show. These ideas would be great if DCI coordinated them with show sponsors. Show sponsors that go outside the rules face the wrath of next year's scheduling "anomolies". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) But what if I think the most entertaining corps is a top-6 corps? Do I have to choose a second? Should I care? How could such a vote be inclusive and non-biased? If your vote went to a top-6 corps, you'd still get to see them perform at finals !! You win. Not sure what you mean non-biased. It's a fan-favorite -- by definition it's biased. There is a structural bias against corps who don't compete as often. IMO that's ok. If you want to qualify for the fan-favorite exhibition, do a full tour. You could also consider throwing out all but highest X shows for each corps. That lets every corps enjoy the hometown vote and tosses out the other venues. Presumably all corps would get votes. Even if the top vote-getters are all the corps in finals, you'd still have votes for the remaining corps. Simply take the one with highest cumulative total. Corps A 10000 votes Corps B 5000 votes Corps C 9000 votes ... Corp L 1900 votes -------------------------- end finalist corps Corps M 1100 votes Corps N 900 votes Corps O 3500 votes <---- gets the fan favorite exhibition slot Corps P 600 votes Edited July 10, 2012 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photographer Jim Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm looking for some clarification here from the OP. Given the proposal, how would judging at finals be handled? Would the "fan-favorite" corps be judged? Would their judged position at the end of the night constitute their "placement" for the season? Or would those six corps be performing in exhibition only? I think there are obvious problems either way. If judged, how does one utilize the scores? If we opt to have the finals night placings determine the final standings, a situation arises where (conceivably) a corps that has a show popular with the fans but which has been placing, say, 18th all season, due to the fans voting them into finals would then be guaranteed a final placement of no less than 12th. And a corps that has consistently placed 7th all season, but is bumped out of finals by other lesser scoring "fan favorite" corps, is now unable to finish higher than 13th? To me, the unfairness of such a system would not be missed on even the most casual fan. And this obvious unfairness would not change given a less dramatic (but probably more plausible) example than what I have offered above. It would not be any less unfair if the scenario above were to involve the 12th place corps being bumped out of finals by the 13th place "fan-favorite" corps. Because participation in (and subsequent final season rankings) would no longer be based on what a corps 'earned", this system is fundamentally unfair and flawed. So, if placement at the finals show doesn't determine the corps actual season placement, then the finals performances are basically exhibitions. So, again lets say the 12th place corps gets bumped by the 13th place "fan-favorite" corps. The 12th place corps has been chasing, and closing in all season on the 11th place corps. They have closed the gap to within .05 points, and they have a tweak to their closer planned that they believe will make the difference. However, they never get to find out, because they are bumped from finals by a 13th place corps (who will perform in exhibition) and who has consistently scored 2 points below them, but was voted into finals anyway. Fair? I think not. The biggest problem I see with all proposals of this nature is that the tend to try to introduce a new variable into the competition aspect of DC at the last minute, which in my mind is a great dis-service to the corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) I'd be super upset if my corps worked really hard and got 7th all season, only to not make finals because some 15th place corps plays "Malaguena". 2 sides to every coin... imagine a Corps working " hard all season" playing "Melaquena" to rousing ovations, but finishing out of the running to some Corps that plays Kuchinberg's" Concerto Nonsensicato " to mostly collective yawns and head scratching. Edited July 10, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamMan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) 2 sides to every coin... imagine a Corps working " hard all season" playing "Melaquena" to rousing ovations, but finishing out of the running to some Corps that plays Kuchinberg's" Concerto Nonsensicato " to mostly collective yawns and head scratching. But that's why a judging system was introduced. It ensures the better corps does better, regardless of the location of the show. Also imagine how Star '93 would have done. Why would they have even bothered to write that show? Edited July 10, 2012 by JamMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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