supersop Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Not too long ago you did that very thing in the cadets show thread.... And this is a BD thread. Leave the mud in the bog where it belongs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 And this is a BD thread. Leave the mud in the bog where it belongs. This isn't THE BD thread. The discussion is about someone's opinion of BD not BD themselves. Someone coming here and congratulating BD on their win tonight would be off topic. That would belong in a BD thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 ...Personally, I've always felt of all the corps out there, the Blue Devils should be the last ones who need gimmicks to win. With the talent pool they have to draw from year after year, I'd like to see them drop some of the gimmicks (props, voiceovers, amps, etc.)... What you consider a 'gimmick' they consider important components of their show design, based on their use over the past few years. I haven't seen them live, just online, so I can't make much of a value judgement, but even online to me their show is incredible in design and performance. I just don't see gimmicks at all...just excellent usage of the various elements that make up a wonderful show. Just MHO, of course. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) You can be a honk and interject your opinions so long as you explain yourself and show some intelligence as to why you feel that way. It's the honks (remember they have little to nothing to do with the Crown organization) that cause the problems are the ones who don't know how to make logical arguments and back it up with recognizable intellect in order to support their position. One liners suck. No they don't. Edited July 24, 2012 by MikeD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Sorry Plan9, I have a hard time seeing any mass ABBD sentiment. Sure, there are some who are only in it for their corps, but BD has almost always been a dominant group. Is 94-99 (1st-3rd-1st-1st-3rd-1st) really that much different from 07-12 (1st-2nd-1st-1st-2nd-likely 1st)? Yet in the earlier era, BD was one of the most popular groups on the field, always receiving a large ovation. The golf claps are pretty recent. What changed? The shows more than the fans IMO. BD's design is awesome, just like Chuck says in the OP. On a different level from everything else on the field. But "design" and "coordination" and "intellectual sophistication" (at least for band-director-judging-GE values of "intellectual") are not the same thing as "entertainment". When your activity needs to sell 10000s of seats in giant football stadiums, rather than 100 in a recital hall or arthouse cinema, to break even, don't be surprised if the fans aren't all that into your "art". Maybe we've changed! Maybe we've become more cynical and competitive. Look...people like what they like (I get it Jeff )...and I, or anyone else, have no right to suggest you must like what, by your nature, you don't. However, some (apparently, a lot of some) come to drum corps to see a reflection of the their past done with new people....a sort of DCI Juke Box. Anything wrong with that?....hell no!...but to exclude or reject the new and different is to limit and narrow the activity. Yes, BD designers have departed for parts unknown (a while ago)....but instead of encouraging exploration in design, some react as though it's a full out assault on DC. They're just one corps trying something expansive and different. And BTW, other corps are not exactly lining up behind them either, so that pretty much debunks the "lemming effect". And despite your minimizing of ABBD, IMO this is (to an unmeasurable degree) about change and reward. In DCI...change comes hard, and even harder if it is accompanied by titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The block in the opener for instance - lines peel off and it maintains as a block. The Blue Devils keep the shape without even being in it so to speak. Those lines that peel off contribute, one at a time, to a rotating wheel that adds and subtracts members seemingly randomly while the overall circle shape maintains perfectly. This device of overlapped forms - yes, extremely precise forms - creates a complex depth and layering that is, quite frankly, difficult to see to the untrained eye. I can't go along with this statement at all. I have seen what you describe quite plainly upon an early viewing, and I have a completely untrained eye. I agree the drill there is clever and clean, but it's not mindblowing or world-changing, nor particularly new. Their show is supple and elegant and new. Drum Corps has been changed. Sorry, but this is ludicrous. Drum corps is ever-changing, and all shows exert their own influence on the form. The visual ideas BD presents don't really provide much to build on. From what I've heard of their design process, that's the area that other corps could learn from. Visually, I think the Blue Knights show makes a stronger statement, and provides a much richer foundation as a source of visual innovation. Look, I really enjoy BD's show this year, but just like 2010, which got similarly lavish praise and speculation about its impact on the future of drum corps, I think the critical feature of this show that stands out to me is its uniqueness, and that's not something that can be repurposed or built upon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Are there a bunch of BD honks in the Crown thread ragging on Crown this year? Or any other corps? If someone posted a thread called "I Loved Crown" and wrote lavish praise of Crown's show in the post, you'd see similar pushback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 If someone posted a thread called "I Loved Crown" and wrote lavish praise of Crown's show in the post, you'd see similar pushback. Not from BD people! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 What you consider a 'gimmick' they consider important components of their show design, based on their use over the past few years. I haven't seen them live, just online, so I can't make much of a value judgement, but even online to me their show is incredible in design and performance. I just don't see gimmicks at all...just excellent usage of the various elements that make up a wonderful show. I wouldn't call them gimmicks either, but I do think MartinO has something of a point. Many of BD's forms and drill this year are uncritiqueable at the detail level. Take the opening bars, when the brass starts playing: they aren't marching in clean lines or in step. It's a mess intentionally, and it fits the show, etc, etc, but it's still a mess. Even if the individual members have detailed and specific responsibilities, the judges would be unable to know if they were performing them well or not. And later when the brass comes together in a blob midfield with the guard surrouding and mixed in, and the whole form starts marching backwards, with guard throws at random times and individuals breaking off at random times. It's visually effective, but from an individual performance standpoint, I don't see how it's judgeable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) Those few paragraphs eloquently sum up all the "effect from drill" moments in BD's show (although IMO most of it can best be described as "staging" not drill). Here's a fun thought experiment for DCP readers. Try to describe Crown's visual program using the same verbose, flowery prose :-) Be sure to incude all the simultaneous events and layered responsibilities for the performers. (see you next season) I completely agree with you, although I wouldn't describe Fan Guy's comments as verbose...more like "extremely accurate and verbally defining" . So..... make it happen! If you recall, I have said for a few years now that CC is BD's challenger for experimentation and design intricacy. However, they continue to play around the edges and have yet to fully emerse themselves (2009 was closest). Part of it may be that occasionally their captions suffer, partially due to execution and flow of design and part because of their attachment to telling some kind of story or have characters (which may be limiting). But these guys are clearly IMO, the heir apparent (or partner apparent) to "out of the box" if they want. This will be a "horse race" (parden the pun, cough, cough...07) until finals. Edited July 24, 2012 by Plan9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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