Muchachos disqualfication controversy

[ptr250]

Thirty years ago the Muchachos got caught knowingly marching overage member(s). It doesn’t matter if it was one or one hundred members one week over or ten years overage. The fact is they knowingly broke the rules! It’s unfortunate to the legitimate members that the staff of the Muchachos betrayed them! You can’t blame the messenger or the enforcer, just the rule breakers! It is time for all of those involved to accept the consequences and quit crying over what might have been!

[ptr250]

My browser tried to double post the last message. Sorry!

Edited February 23, 2005 by ptr250

[audiodb]

I must have missed this post - sorry for not responding sooner to these factual errors.

I marched in the '75 Muchachos, I haven't read so much BS in my entire life as what is in this string of crap. That day was my 18th birthday; it was August 15, 1975.

OK, you got the date right.

We had been first on in the prelims because John MacAulffe (MAC) our director was in a pissing match with Pesceone all year.

That is not correct. The Muchachos were the 10th corps to appear that day. They were in the member corps block, between Blue Stars and Cavaliers in the performance order.

The whole effort that DCI was pushing was to improve the quality of Drum Corps and to #### with anyone who couldn’t pay the bills. (That’s why there were over 100 corps in the NJ Legion show that year and now there are not 100 corps period!)

There were never anywhere near 100 corps competing at the NJ AL state championship field contest in any given year. Here are the results of the 1975 contest (Wildwood, NJ - September 6):

Muchachos 85.0

Garfield Cadets 82.8

Saints 74.95

Bridgemen 72.2

Meadowlarks 69.55

Monarchs 59.65

Townsmen 57.85

Black Watch 46.35

Cranford Patriots 42.85

Imperial Guardsmen 39.6

Royales 39.35

Sacred Heart Crusaders 33.95

Royaleer Mounties 31.8

St. Mary's Cadets 21.35

Broadcasters 14.4

Woodsiders 13.2

Looks like 16 corps to me, not 100. You missed by 84 corps.

I would have like to have thought we won the Prelims, the show was clean, but it was 8:30am.

No, it wasn't. No one appeared that early.

Schedule of events for DCI open-class prelims, day one - August 15, 1975:

9:00 AM Crossmen, Delaware County, Penn.

9:17 AM Optimists, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

9:34 AM Capital Freelancers, Sacramento, Calif.

9:51 AM Guardsmen, Schaumberg, Ill.

10:08 AM Holy Family Defenders, Rockland, Mass.

10:25 AM Pembroke Imperials, Pembroke, Mass.

10:42 AM break for 17 minutes..................

10:59 AM Grenadiers, Southern Tier, N.Y.

11:16 AM Blue Devils, Concord, Calif.

11:33 AM Blue Stars, LaCrosse, Wisc.

11:50 AM Muchachos, Hawthorne, N.Y.

12:07 PM Cavaliers, Park Ridge, Ill.

12:24 PM Troopers, Casper, Wyo.

12:41 PM LUNCH

01:45 PM Oakland Crusaders, Etobicoke, Ontario, Canada

02:02 PM 27th Lancers, Revere, Mass.

02:19 PM Phantom Regiment, Rockford, Ill.

02:36 PM Santa Clara Vanguard, Santa Clara, Calif.

02:53 PM Kilts, Racine, Wisc.

03:10 PM Argonne Rebels, Great Bend, Kansas

03:27 PM Madison Scouts, Madison, Wisc.

03:44 PM break for 17 minutes........................

04:01 PM Seattle Imperials, Seattle, Wash.

04:18 PM Avant Garde, Saratoga County, N.Y.

04:35 PM P.A.L. Cadets, Philadelphia, Penn.

04:52 PM Boston Crusaders, Boston, Mass.

05:09 PM General Butler Vagabonds, Butler, Penn.

05:26 PM Cardinals, Melrose, Mass.

Ken Kobold laid them down on his master tapes in the order they appeared, an exact match to the timetable published by DCI. The Muchachos were in the 11:50 AM slot. You were three hours and 20 minutes off.

The legend of the '75 Muchachos and the score that was never tabulated is enough fuel for speculation. Let's not add to it with more myths that are so easily disproven.

[audiodb]

Why were they not on the 1974 DVD tho?

I would love to have that answer. I still have the flyer that advertised Muchachos 1974 on the DVD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That must have been an error. Here's how it happened.

Someone filmed some corps at the 1974 DCI prelims, and the top four finishers were aired on local TV (Tom Peashey can elaborate on that - he was a commentator for the broadcast). Anyhow, the key detail to remember is that it was the top four prelim finishers that were included:

SCV

Kingsmen

Madison

Kilties

By some stroke of luck, a copy of those four corps was saved. Any other footage shot at Ithaca was not as fortunate. Muchachos were seventh in prelims, so DCI has no footage of them.

Fast-forward to the Video Express days. Someone mentions "1974 top four", forgetting to specify "prelims". Someone else creates the ad layout, checks the final results for 1974, and puts Muchachos on the list instead of Kilties. Oops.

[audiodb]

It was a typo when they put it on.

See my previous post.

The Muchachos performed early in the prelims process in '74, (according to Jeff Kievet, it was because their management made a mistake in filing the forms, fwiw).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is not correct. Muchachos were the 13th corps to appear on the second day of open-class prelims (August 16th, 1974). They had a slot in the middle of the DCI member block, with Troopers just before them and Kilties after.

[muchachos]

My fellow Muc has his facts wrong...I remember that day as if it were yesterday. I said in some other posts throughout the year that we went on around noon. Additionally...it's funny that the cavies were on right after us isn't it?

As far as the rat Cavies go...I firmly believe that you should take care of your own house, and not worry about what others are doing. But who really cares anymore...back then you were part of a drum corps fraternity alright....THE OVERAGE FRATERNITY......I had several friends in other top 12 corps.... ALL had overage.......but there was a sytematic plan to "get" the chacho's because others would gain (West Coast).

I also have to diagree with what Dan from Madison said about the Muchachos. I'm para-phrasing here...but he said that in 1975 the chachos were desperate to win a title and did everything they could to accomplish that end. Pure nonsence dude. After the 1974 season and during our winter rehersals, we had an over abundance of talent show up in Hawthorne. Just a select few were chosen...our hornline grew to 61, but almost all were carryovers from prior years. Our age infractions were never discussed throughout the year, in fact i would bet that alot of us never knew each others ages. I was part of the corps, and I didnt know.

Be that as it may....the corps legacy is still intact, and always will be. The corps left an indelible mark, and lives in infamy to this day...which is remarkable given the corps relatively short exsistence.

CAVIES SUCK!

[mistertoo]

My fellow Muc has his facts wrong...I remember that day as if it were yesterday.  I said in some other posts throughout the year that we went on around noon.  Additionally...it's funny that the cavies were on right after us isn't it?

As far as the rat Cavies go...I firmly believe that you should take care of your own house, and not worry about what others are doing.  But who really cares anymore...back then you were part of a drum corps fraternity alright....THE OVERAGE FRATERNITY......I had several friends in other top 12 corps.... ALL had overage.......but there was a sytematic plan to "get" the chacho's because others would gain (West Coast).

I also have to diagree with what Dan from Madison said about the Muchachos.  I'm para-phrasing here...but he said that in 1975 the chachos were desperate to win a title and did everything they could to accomplish that end.  Pure nonsence dude.  After the 1974 season and during our winter rehersals, we had an over abundance of talent show up in Hawthorne. Just a select few were chosen...our hornline grew to 61, but almost all were carryovers from prior years. Our age infractions were never discussed throughout the year, in fact i would bet that alot of us never knew each others ages.  I was part of the corps, and I didnt know.

Be that as it may....the corps legacy is still intact, and always will be.  The corps left an indelible mark, and lives in infamy to this day...which is remarkable given the corps relatively short exsistence.

CAVIES SUCK!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Still waiting for your "proof" of prelims scores. (crickets chirping........)I would like to see the video too; the one you said has been used in marching band clinics for all these years. It's obvious to me that you are just another clown who claims he was "there", and knows the "real story". That would make about 400 who now claim they marched that year. And your comments on the Cavaliers? Classy.

[mister_horse]

This is for Muchacho. One of my favorite corps of that era were the Muchachos. I also think you have said what you believe to be true,but I have to tell you this. After the end of the 1974 season there is only one corps that could have beaten the Madison Scouts at DCI in 1975 and that was the Madison Scouts PERIOD END OF SENTENCE.

[Tansea]

Un-frig'n-believable! Thirty years ago and you all are still on about this???!!!! For the love of gawd, let it go. You sound like one of those bitter highschool, third string quarter backs who "could have" won the State championship if only the coach would have let him in the game, rambling on and on at the end of the bar.

You know what, I was there that night and to end this once and for all I personally concede second place. Are you happy? Now all we need is a Madison Scout to concede first and we can shut these guys up for good, okay. We'll anounce it in DCW, "After great soul searching members of SCV and Madison Scouts concede victory to bitter individual members of 1975 Muchachos so they can get on with their life.

Any Blue Devils wanna help out? Any 27 people? Please...

I feel better. Now go kiss your kids and throw the ball with them.

Edited February 24, 2005 by Tansea

[ScribeToo]

My fellow Muc has his facts wrong...I remember that day as if it were yesterday.  I said in some other posts throughout the year that we went on around noon.  Additionally...it's funny that the cavies were on right after us isn't it?

As far as the rat Cavies go...I firmly believe that you should take care of your own house, and not worry about what others are doing.  But who really cares anymore...back then you were part of a drum corps fraternity alright....THE OVERAGE FRATERNITY......I had several friends in other top 12 corps.... ALL had overage.......but there was a sytematic plan to "get" the chacho's because others would gain (West Coast).

I also have to diagree with what Dan from Madison said about the Muchachos.  I'm para-phrasing here...but he said that in 1975 the chachos were desperate to win a title and did everything they could to accomplish that end.  Pure nonsence dude.  After the 1974 season and during our winter rehersals, we had an over abundance of talent show up in Hawthorne. Just a select few were chosen...our hornline grew to 61, but almost all were carryovers from prior years. Our age infractions were never discussed throughout the year, in fact i would bet that alot of us never knew each others ages.  I was part of the corps, and I didnt know.

Be that as it may....the corps legacy is still intact, and always will be.  The corps left an indelible mark, and lives in infamy to this day...which is remarkable given the corps relatively short exsistence.

CAVIES SUCK!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay.. first of all.. you're how old now?? I would say "grow up" but I'm thinking that you just may be too far gone for that option.

Secondly, it seems that there are lots of people around who were ALSO there at the time whose recollection of events basically MATCH EACH OTHER'S and tend to disagree with yours.. so maybe -- just maybe -- the recollection most people are going to believe (if we weren't there) is the one that's most commonly agreed upon.. and in that case, you're just a troll trying to start stuff.

As someone who came to drum corps long after the Muchachos were a distant memory, I can say without hesitation that the only legacy your corps has with me is one of being a bunch of whiners who want to re-write history to show themselves in a better light. The more you rail against what appears to be the consensus, the more likely I am to dismiss your rantings as just that.. lunatic rantings. It also increases my disdain for you and your corps. Sad? Yeah, probably.. I'm sure I would have liked your corps. My grandmother (who lives a few blocks from where you guys used to practice) still talks about you guys and loved you..

I may be totally wrong but it's guys like you who've given me this poor impression of your corps.

Thanks a lot.

Thirdly, did you bother to READ the forum guidelines before you started vomiting on the keyboard?

Finally, WAAAHHH.. Your corps cheated. I'm sorry your corps staff and management didn't have large enough gonads to do it WITHOUT cheating.. they not only cheated the system, they cheated YOU and that's probably the saddest of all of it.

Doesn't matter if it was "done" back then. Doesn't matter if the staff of your corps went to another one and did it AGAIN.. it was WRONG whenever someone did it and didn't get caught.. it was WRONG when they did it and got caught with your corps... it was wrong when they did it and got caught with ANOTHER corps.. it would be WRONG now.. it has ALWAYS been WRONG.

Exactly how much wrong are you willing to gloss over to make yourself feel justified in all this?

Rule.

Broken.

Disqualified.

End of story.

dude. Seriously.. enough with the bashing of other corps. It's immature and gives your corps "legacy" yet another black eye.

Stef

Edited February 24, 2005 by ScribeToo