Bass Skate Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 How do we account for Phantom's 9TH PLACE finish only three years ago? Is this the "consistently proven" design effectiveness of which you speak? Everytime someone tries to pidgeonhole Boston as not capable of being in the top six and certain other corps are escounced in the top six, history continues to get in the way. And if you remember the 2009 show, the design was not of great quality. Their design formula changed and PR was not successful hence allowing other corps like Boston to move up. (09 was also their first year on Jupiter horns which were not battle tested yet for the activity.) Same deal with Cavaliers having an off year. I happen to like Boston and like I said BEFORE I listed my predictions, I accounted for POLITICS as well. No one is pigeonholing Boston, but records have shown that Boston has not made a push for top 6 since 2003. Other corps have been up and down. Even though PR had a rough season in 2009, they came back to top 6 and quickly. Boston has not done that and it's been 10 years. It is not a matter of attacking Boston, it's stating the information that has been given through the years. When another corps moves up with the current 6 still in their prime there is true cause for celebration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) And if you remember the 2009 show, the design was not of great quality. Their design formula changed and PR was not successful hence allowing other corps like Boston to move up. (09 was also their first year on Jupiter horns which were not battle tested yet for the activity.) Same deal with Cavaliers having an off year. I happen to like Boston and like I said BEFORE I listed my predictions, I accounted for POLITICS as well. No one is pigeonholing Boston, but records have shown that Boston has not made a push for top 6 since 2003. Other corps have been up and down. Even though PR had a rough season in 2009, they came back to top 6 and quickly. Boston has not done that and it's been 10 years. It is not a matter of attacking Boston, it's stating the information that has been given through the years. When another corps moves up with the current 6 still in their prime there is true cause for celebration. I do find that just about all the World Class Division Corps are " pigeonhold " in that with the exception of perhaps one off year, ALL the Corps pretty much are falling into their expected range each and every season. Yes, there are usually one or 2 Corps that in any given year move up or down more than a couple of positions, but in short order things generally return to " normal " regarding the placements. I have pointed out the reasons for this before, and why this will probably continue into forever, so I see no reason to rehash it once again. If I had to make a prediction that I feel reasonably comfortable with....history as my guide.... I would predict as a general prediction that no more than 2 World Class Corps out of the entire grouping will finish more than 3 spots higher or lower than than where they finished last season. I 'll also predict that no more than 1 Corps that finished between 1-15 last season moves up or down more than 2 placement positions this season. These predictions of mine seem like a safe bet to me. Edited May 2, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass Skate Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 One of my college buddies went to their first camp (he had been to a BK camp and Phantom camp in the past), said it was by FAR the biggest turnout at a camp he had ever seen. Texas marching bands = musically the best at a high school level (I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks that, it's a reputation that's been held up for awhile). They had quality AND quantity at their camps, I'm sure. The only way they'd miss finals was is their design staff wrote a pile of...you know. But seeing what they did last year, what they have planned this year, and who's running the corps at a design and caption level, that's not going to be the case at all. Texas has some wicked talent for sure. I would not go as far as saying Texas = musically the best at HS level. Texas is a very large state and there are A LOT of not so good bands too, funny how the not good bands aren't heard or mentioned. Since the state is so large the amount of good bands should be calculated as a percentage not total number. One would probably find that proportionally they are close to the same as states like Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, California, Georgia, Florida, Oklahoma which all have phenomenal programs. Keep in mind too that when Texas marching bands compete against the south or Midwest they are often bested by other states. At least in the BOA circuit. There is much truth to your statement, but I believe it is a positive stigma that Texas has the best there is to offer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass Skate Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I do find that just about all the World Class Division Corps are " pigeonhold " in that with the exception of perhaps one off year, ALL the Corps pretty much are falling into their expected range each and every season. Yes, there are usually one or 2 Corps that in any given year move up or down more than a couple of positions, but in short order things generally return to " normal " regarding the placements. I have pointed out the reasons for this before, and why this will probably continue into forever, so I see no reason to rehash it once again. If I had to make a prediction that I feel reasonably comfortable with....history as my guide.... I would predict as a general prediction that no more than 2 World Class Corps out of the entire grouping will finish more than 3 spots higher or lower than than where they finished last season. I 'll also predict that no more than 1 Corps that finished between 1-15 last season moves up or down more than 2 placement positions this season. These predictions of mine seem like a safe bet to me. Of course that would be a safe bet. Most corps don't move more than 2 places because of one simple reason. Everyone likes to hype up or post that X corps is so much better this year and try to back it up with reasons that don't really play major factors when it comes down to it. The reality is....EVERY CORPS gets better the next season and that's why movement is minimal. Those that try to wish that X corps got better and no other corps did is being ridiculous. Most lower corps that are "pigeonhold" change their staff and/or design teams every other year or can't hold onto a good thing. Majority of your top corps have had the same admin, designers and staff for several years that know how to be successful in the activity. 2010 Troopers is a great example. They had a great team that knew how to be successful. Most of that team changed for 2011 and they haven't made finals again since. (Although, looks like they have a good team in place now!) So some of being "pigeonhold" is self induced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 The reality is....EVERY CORPS gets better the next season Thats not my assessment and experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 How do we account for Phantom's 9TH PLACE finish only three years ago? Is this the "consistently proven" design effectiveness of which you speak? While I think Phantom is the most inconsistent of the 'elite' corps from the recent era, I think when you can point to only one season Phantom has been down placement-wise you have a pretty consistent corps. In the last ten consecutive seasons (ie when this year's age-outs were pre-teens), 2009 was the ONLY season Phantom placed outside of the Top 6. Before that they had a small string of non-Top 6 seasons, but I think Phantom has generally had a pretty consistent run the last decade, and giving them the benefit of the doubt as a Top 6 cops is not only fair and logical, but probably given trends of the last decade. Everytime someone tries to pidgeonhole Boston as not capable of being in the top six and certain other corps are escounced in the top six, history continues to get in the way. Well, during that same decade span of the last ten competitive seasons, Boston has made Top 6 only once. You are 100% correct (though you don't state this exactly, I'm reading a bit into your comment) with your assessment that all that matters is what's happens on the field. Boston could be Top 3 this year, and Phantom could drop out of Top 10: we will truly never know until August what each corps is truly capable of achieving. But statistics and data analysis says that according to recent trends Phantom will likely be a Top 6 corps and Boston will likely not be in the Top 6. Until either corps shows us otherwise, it's logical to predict Phantom = Top 6, Boston = 10-7 (could be worse; if we were having this conversation 15 years ago we'd be laughing at any prediction that even had Boston making Finals) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Thats not my assessment and experience. Exactly! sincerely, 2009 Regiment & 2012 Cavaliers (among many others)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 FWIW I agree BAC usually outperforms their predictions here. And that's a good thing :-) That's true: either they consistently over-achieve, or DCP consistently has lowered expectations for them. That is an intriguing observation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) While I think Phantom is the most inconsistent of the 'elite' corps from the recent era, I think when you can point to only one season Phantom has been down placement-wise you have a pretty consistent corps. My assessment when I look at all the Corps in the World Class Division, is that pretty much all of them are " consistent " in placements. I'm hard pressed to see too many that are not " consistent " in placements, except for an outlier year here or there. DCI has been chock full of bigtime changes over the years, but as far as competition placements are concerned its about as " consistent " and predictable as the annual return of the swallows to San Juan Capistrano, imo. Edited May 2, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bass Skate Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Thats not my assessment and experience. I agree with you! I should have specified it, but I was speaking in terms of what the corps' fans hype every year. Ask anyone who supports a certain corps, most of them who don't really know the inner workings will say that the corps is "better", "on fire", "awesome" or any other description one can think of. BTW, I like a healthy debate BRASSO and have enjoyed the back the and forth. Thank you, take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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