This year's gold and silver

[CrownBariDad]

If you had seen where BD started during all days you would agree that the statement that "BD has the best talent in DCI" is not always true. They have the best staff that gets the results from the members. And FYI the corps had over 70% rookies in the entire drum corps this year. They will be "really good" within the next few years....

I think others have pointed out that many BD "rookies" are in fact rookies to BD, but not to Drum Corps. They may need to learn the Blue Devils way of doing things, but they have a leg up on true Drum Corps rookies.

[2000Cadet]

I honestly dont believe that this years BD show style is the "Future of the activity". 2010 was such a loud bang and that show won convincingly and you did not see the rest of the field folow, quite the opposite...Cadets beat the Blue Devils by being...Cadets !

I dont think we will see BD coming out next year in the exact same fashion, I have heard rumours and if hold true, will be a constant kaleidescope of music and movement and almsot and exact opposite of what we just saw.......

And I dont think all other corps need to assimilate in order to win or "beat BD" .....Crown, even Phantom had flaws, should they master those flaws within their own styles, theres no reason they wont be rewarded.

The key here is that corps remain true to their style, their trademark and their way of thinking and design.

Geoffrey

Said PERFECTLY. Last year was a prime example of when a corps stays true to their identity, great things will come of it.

[Cron]

While I understand where many of you are coming from with the "unjudgeable" argument when it comes to the individualized visual performance aspects of the Blue Devils' production, I can't really agree. I've watched this show a ton to analyze what is going on and while I certainly see a lot of chaotic individualized demand, when I watch closely, I can see one person doing this crazy movement or varied marching style here that no one else is doing, but then see another member entirely do that same thing later or simultaneously on another part of the field with complete consistency. These things aren't unjudgeable, there's just a LOT to judge. One thing I get from BD that I rarely get from other corps is complete consistency in carriage and movement. This is a hard thing to word exactly how I see it, but I guess what I'm getting at is that you can focus on any given individual for an entire performance, then switch your focus to another individual for another viewing and see almost zero difference in the way they move and carry themselves. This consistency is present no matter what is asked of them movement-wise and I've always found it pretty amazing.

As for which show was more difficult overall between Crown and BD, it's very hard to say. I'd say both of these productions placed enormous demands on individual performers, but in very different ways. Where Crown's show was like an endurance test, Blue Devils' had an ever-changing memory puzzle. Honestly, I can't imagine learning/cleaning either show.

[Cron]

Said PERFECTLY. Last year was a prime example of when a corps stays true to their identity, great things will come of it.

Very true.

[skywhopper]

While I understand where many of you are coming from with the "unjudgeable" argument when it comes to the individualized visual performance aspects of the Blue Devils' production, I can't really agree. I've watched this show a ton to analyze what is going on and while I certainly see a lot of chaotic individualized demand, when I watch closely, I can see one person doing this crazy movement or varied marching style here that no one else is doing, but then see another member entirely do that same thing later or simultaneously on another part of the field with complete consistency. These things aren't unjudgeable, there's just a LOT to judge.

I agree that the individual demand is high, very possibly the highest overall. But it's the ensemble side of those individual features that I call "unjudgeable". Individual challenge is great. But by giving over so much of the show to individual or small-group demand, I think Blue Devils are avoiding the challenge of synchronizing 130 guard, brass, and battery into a coherent whole. Yes, they do have whole-corps moments, and they clearly get the credit for performing them cleanly, but my point is they are designing to minimize the cleaning they have to do to achieve good whole-corps effects by minimizing the amount of whole-corps work they have to do.

It's fair to say that since the sheets reward that kind of design, they are designing smartly to maximize effect while minimizing their cleaning effort. But I think we should recognize how they're achieving such an apparently clean show.

[Cron]

I agree that the individual demand is high, very possibly the highest overall. But it's the ensemble side of those individual features that I call "unjudgeable". Individual challenge is great. But by giving over so much of the show to individual or small-group demand, I think Blue Devils are avoiding the challenge of synchronizing 130 guard, brass, and battery into a coherent whole. Yes, they do have whole-corps moments, and they clearly get the credit for performing them cleanly, but my point is they are designing to minimize the cleaning they have to do to achieve good whole-corps effects by minimizing the amount of whole-corps work they have to do.

It's fair to say that since the sheets reward that kind of design, they are designing smartly to maximize effect while minimizing their cleaning effort. But I think we should recognize how they're achieving such an apparently clean show.

I can completely see your point and how someone could view things this way, but the methods used for these individual performance demands creates an ensemble effect to me. There are two apparent scatter moments in this years show that come to mind quickly, one is the small groups scatter I mentioned before. With the frantic swing music and the small triangular groups all moving at different angles I feel like it is a perfect visual representation of what is happening musically. Almost like a pointillism painting in motion. The other is during a quieter moment and the corps is spread out in a full field scatter, at first this looked to me like just another transitional scatter moment, but after repeated viewings, I noticed the path each member took was carefully planned to generate an undulating effect, almost like disturbing the surface in a bucket of water.

[Catan]

While I understand where many of you are coming from with the "unjudgeable" argument when it comes to the individualized visual performance aspects of the Blue Devils' production, I can't really agree. I've watched this show a ton to analyze what is going on and while I certainly see a lot of chaotic individualized demand, when I watch closely, I can see one person doing this crazy movement or varied marching style here that no one else is doing, but then see another member entirely do that same thing later or simultaneously on another part of the field with complete consistency. These things aren't unjudgeable, there's just a LOT to judge. One thing I get from BD that I rarely get from other corps is complete consistency in carriage and movement. This is a hard thing to word exactly how I see it, but I guess what I'm getting at is that you can focus on any given individual for an entire performance, then switch your focus to another individual for another viewing and see almost zero difference in the way they move and carry themselves. This consistency is present no matter what is asked of them movement-wise and I've always found it pretty amazing.

As for which show was more difficult overall between Crown and BD, it's very hard to say. I'd say both of these productions placed enormous demands on individual performers, but in very different ways. Where Crown's show was like an endurance test, Blue Devils' had an ever-changing memory puzzle. Honestly, I can't imagine learning/cleaning either show.

The best summary of both shows I've seen yet. From a member standpoint, Crown's show is all about physical demand and BD's is all about mental. Although both shows contain elements of both.

[IMcomguy]

I understand your concern about the spread. But -

Consider the fact that a spread of 1.0 is not that hard to acheive if each of the 10 judges has corps A ranked over corps B in each caption. Judges do not like to give ties in their caption - otherwise it appears they cannot make a call between the two corps. If each judge has A over B by 0.1 - voila - a 1.0 spread.

Not saying that's what happened on Saturday night - but I wouldn't read too much into a spread of a point.

Incorrect! Everything is divided. If every judge had A over B by 0.1, it would be an 0.5 spread, not 1.05.

AND, in this case, "Corps B" won 4 of the 10 judges. So if 6 of those judges had A up by 0.1 each, it would have been 0.3 total, period.

1.05 is still MASSIVE, and absolutely stupid when you consider the caliber of these groups. Again, how many perfect brass or percussion scores have we seen in DCI HISTORY??? 1 of each. Yet we saw 4 perfect visual scores come in one show, which suddenly was leaps and bounds better than their prelims run I guess.

[supersop]

I can completely see your point and how someone could view things this way, but the methods used for these individual performance demands creates an ensemble effect to me. There are two apparent scatter moments in this years show that come to mind quickly, one is the small groups scatter I mentioned before. With the frantic swing music and the small triangular groups all moving at different angles I feel like it is a perfect visual representation of what is happening musically. Almost like a pointillism painting in motion. The other is during a quieter moment and the corps is spread out in a full field scatter, at first this looked to me like just another transitional scatter moment, but after repeated viewings, I noticed the path each member took was carefully planned to generate an undulating effect, almost like disturbing the surface in a bucket of water.

'

A well designed "scatter" takes hours and hours to design correctly. You have dots on a page from A to B .. but path is something that has to be done on an individual basis. This can be done 2 ways.

1. "Members ... pick a path and stick with it consistently ... I'll change paths one at a time if I see something that isn't working"

With this method .. the drill designer or visual caption head has to take into account the actual flow of the movement, where focal points are, pacing might need to fluctuate and avoiding compressed clusters.

2. "I'm going to give every single one of you your exact path". Not fun .. and it's a full day of visual on just that one set.

Both methods work. Both require draining hours of repetition to get it right. End result .. a scatter isn't just a scatter. It's a detailed effect that takes a stupid amount of hours to coordinate and execute at a high level. Most great scatters have momentary focal points that showcase one performer or a group of performers. They will also generate velocity into the next set (which is usually a hit). Some great scatters to resolution .... wow ... 88 Garfield was stupid good. 90 Cadets in the closer, various spots of the 91 cadets offering.... And a very healthy chunk of what BD did this year. Suncoast also did some awesome scatters in 88 and 89 .... funny, 4 of my examples are Marc Sylvester creations.

[supersop]

Incorrect! Everything is divided. If every judge had A over B by 0.1, it would be an 0.5 spread, not 1.05.

AND, in this case, "Corps B" won 4 of the 10 judges. So if 6 of those judges had A up by 0.1 each, it would have been 0.3 total, period.

1.05 is still MASSIVE, and absolutely stupid when you consider the caliber of these groups. Again, how many perfect brass or percussion scores have we seen in DCI HISTORY??? 1 of each. Yet we saw 4 perfect visual scores come in one show, which suddenly was leaps and bounds better than their prelims run I guess.

Actually, .4 can be done in GE alone on each subcaption .. they are not divided.