wishbonecav Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) When the nearest show to you is 285 miles from home, that is a different decision than if its within a couple hours drive. To stay at home, find a performance opportunity, support a band program (Webster) that has been a source of members and talent for years and save the cost of putting the busses on the road just to get a score is not a real hard decision. The attendance at Reading would have been no different if ES was there (and the show sponsors saved the appearance fees, putting the additional net in their fundraiser win column). I posted in another thread how Empire is all alone upstate. There are literally no DCA shows closer than 217 miles (Scranton) and NO DCI shows to latch on to. Renegades get more shows with the DCI circuit in their back yard (and on Saturdays and Sundays). Empire has had to create performance opportunities out of thin air while keeping the members interested - no small task. The Darien Lake thing keeps/expands their regional exposure. It's better than a marching band going to Epcot because it has some stickyness to it. And its 60 miles door to door. DCI week is a traditional off week, so sending a contingent to Indy wasnt in conflict with any DCA sensibilities. Empire has tough decisions to make in a landscape that is very different than a few years ago....no Crusaders show (in fact, no Crusaders), no Brigadiers show (and no Brigadiers), no weekend DCI shows (Buffalo, Erie, Rome on a Tuesday night just doesnt work), no hosting partners (Patriots, St Joe's, etc), fewer established shows (Hornell used DCA to sub for a fallout with DCI) and fewer corps willing to make the trek to Rochester - even once - because, frankly, they dont have to. Performing your fieldshow at a DCI event near your hometown is not the same as taking an entire weekend late in the season to go do standstills and flashmobs at DCI finals in another part of the country for 3-4 days. They also stayed at an amusement part several times during the season, and they obviously did no competitions this weekend (opting for some kind of homeshow), while everyone else went out and got 1 or 2 scores. So yeah - they can do what they want, and I'm sure they are still working their butts off to do well competitively. I dont really know the grand plan or mission of the group, but one thing is clear, this year especially - you can only stretch yourself so thin before the effects start to become noticable. To the naked eye, they dont really look much different than any other year, but i'm guessing they just lack that polish that comes from a group that performs a 10 minute show together a zillion times over the summer. I'll be honest in that I haven't been very deeply involved in DCA until about 7-8 years ago, so maybe this kind of rehearsal schedule (or lack thereof) has been done before by a perennial top 3 corps - but thats just my take. Also seems like the have way more holes than usual, which has nothing to do with their schedule /this issue (hell, rehearsing less and taking more trips would make more people want to march, i would think) Edited August 29, 2012 by wishbonecav 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I shall attempt to define art: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp) NOW you know why I liked BD this year. Fran... you left me the opening, I took it and ran with it. Thank you a zillion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Empire has tough decisions to make in a landscape that is very different than a few years ago....no Crusaders show (in fact, no Crusaders), no Brigadiers show (and no Brigadiers), no weekend DCI shows (Buffalo, Erie, Rome on a Tuesday night just doesnt work), no hosting partners (Patriots, St Joe's, etc), fewer established shows (Hornell used DCA to sub for a fallout with DCI) and fewer corps willing to make the trek to Rochester - even once - because, frankly, they dont have to. to quote Donny Allen here in Erie this summer "it's pretty bad when the ONLY drum corps show in western New York this year is in Erie, Pennsylvania" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 So the difference between art and something usable is if everything is hooked up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Performing your fieldshow at a DCI event near your hometown is not the same as taking an entire weekend late in the season to go do standstills and flashmobs at DCI finals in another part of the country for 3-4 days. They also stayed at an amusement part several times during the season, and they obviously did no competitions this weekend (opting for some kind of homeshow), while everyone else went out and got 1 or 2 scores. So yeah - they can do what they want, and I'm sure they are still working their butts off to do well competitively. I dont really know the grand plan or mission of the group, but one thing is clear, this year especially - you can only stretch yourself so thin before the effects start to become noticable. To the naked eye, they dont really look much different than any other year, but i'm guessing they just lack that polish that comes from a group that performs a 10 minute show together a zillion times over the summer. I'll be honest in that I haven't been very deeply involved in DCA until about 7-8 years ago, so maybe this kind of rehearsal schedule (or lack thereof) has been done before by a perennial top 3 corps - but thats just my take. Also seems like the have way more holes than usual, which has nothing to do with their schedule /this issue (hell, rehearsing less and taking more trips would make more people want to march, i would think) or maybe everyone around them is getting better. I know, I know, using logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Right there with you, DA...word for word...even if it means taking a few eggs and tomatoes. Empire never did anything half way. Or even 90-10. It was always all-in, all the time. The uniform represents excellence, entertainment, fearlessness and no-holds-barred. Empire was always DCA's Muhammad Ali, its Apollo Creed...arrogant, confident, flag waving, fun, hated by some and loved at the same time, over the top with swagger and a big punch right behind it. "If you can back it up, it aint braggin'" has worked for 28 years. It HAD to be great, first and foremost on the field, or else it would have just been dismissed as a windbag of hype with no substance. Only way to do that is to have everyone on the same page. The Statesmen aren't great because of the Edge. The Edge is great because of the Statesmen. And the name on the front of the jersey is a helluva lot more important than the one on the back. And so forth. I have a feeling that this is an important weekend for the corps; Friday and Saturday finding that "thing" we are talking about here. And I predict that Sunday night will have that Ali feel to it....they've done the rope a dope, taking a few punches during the season for sure...but they'll get it right...with a flair for the dramatic...and remind us who "the champ" is... and let it all hang out. gotta back you and DA up. You never count them out, and never let appearances fool you. I sepnt one summer with the group, and man, was it topsy turvy. All new percussion staff...my God, they stopped playing matched grip.....The Empire/Brigs rivalry still going, people hopping corps, people retiring after many years, many new faces, the battery wasn't set until the weekend of the first show....in which the corps was 10 pointed by Brigs and almost melted down twice on the field that night.... and yet never gave up, clawed their way to 4th with a 94 something. And that's with Mr. B in his Sinatra role going through the wrong hole at finals when he disappeared into the smoke. Never ever count out what Empire may have up their sleeve. And....the rest of DCA keeps improving. it wasn't thatlong ago MBI couldn't get past 5th place. Hurcs were squeaking into finals. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salad315 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I really dont want to debate this with you or anyone else. When I was in the corps we went to Sweden and Denmark over a whole week during the summer, we went to Bermuda, Barbados, Rio DeJaniero, performed for Kings, in race tracks, soccer stadiums, and so on. All of these things happened during seasons that we either A.) Won DCA, or B.) came a VERY close second to a superb Bushwackers corps. The corps went to England and came back in 1998 to win DCA. We did "flash mobs" before there was a term to describe what they were. We also had Power Zone, that was a smaller group that won the DCA title every year we competed. I am truly hoping to motivate someone to understand that what they did this summer was not as unusual as it is made to seem. The difference I feel right now is that the will to compete to win is missing. Believe me, I know what I am posting is making some people mad. I am sure that I will hear about from someone. Hopefully it will motivate the corps I love the most of all of my drum corps experiences to accelerate their passion to compete at the highest level. Donny And I'm guessing all that was back when the corps was more local, more experienced, and actually, you know rehearsed together in the winter. At some of the shows I've seen empire at, they had as many holes in certain sections as they had spots filled...(and i'm not talking early season either). Again, i didn't follow DCA in the 90s, but from what I have seen, (for modern DCA, when corps are actually, you know...getting more organized) I have never heard of a corps trying to do so much with so little. Just because it worked in the past doesn't mean it will work now. Bucs changed that game 8 years ago - Minnesota figured it out last year, and it looks like several other corps are at least trying to catch up. Empire either hasn't realized the game is changing, or they have, and just dont care. I know some of you guys actually have experience with the organization, whereas i'm just making observations, so I wont try and debate with you regarding their history, or what has worked in the past - i'm just talking about what I've seen this year. Honestly - i hope they do well...i would bet on 5th, with a shot at 4th. That said, this certainly seems like an organization at a crossroads, especially what some other folks are saying about the lack of shows in their area... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salad315 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 or maybe everyone around them is getting better. I know, I know, using logic Well, yeah - i'd agree with that. Hurcs show is the best I've seen from them it years...just based on the fact that I actually enjoy it a little bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Not sure who you think you are, but the blanket insults and sarcasm? Why bother. You know it all already, so there's no point in hanging out here. The DCI forums might be more your speed. We talk as friends here and sign our names. It's really more a place for grown ups. Maybe you go do something else....there's got to be some traffic somewhere. SORRY MODS...i know, i know....should have been a PM....you can erase it.....having a little fun at mr smart ###'es expense. He's like flounder hahahahahahaha. Well, yeah - i'd agree with that. Hurcs show is the best I've seen from them it years...just based on the fact that I actually enjoy it a little bit Edited August 29, 2012 by wishbonecav 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 When the nearest show to you is 285 miles from home, that is a different decision than if its within a couple hours drive. To stay at home, find a performance opportunity, support a band program (Webster) that has been a source of members and talent for years and save the cost of putting the busses on the road just to get a score is not a real hard decision. The attendance at Reading would have been no different if ES was there (and the show sponsors saved the appearance fees, putting the additional net in their fundraiser win column). I posted in another thread how Empire is all alone upstate. There are literally no DCA shows closer than 217 miles (Scranton) and NO DCI shows to latch on to. Renegades get more shows with the DCI circuit in their back yard (and on Saturdays and Sundays). Empire has had to create performance opportunities out of thin air while keeping the members interested - no small task. The Darien Lake thing keeps/expands their regional exposure. It's better than a marching band going to Epcot because it has some stickyness to it. And its 60 miles door to door. DCI week is a traditional off week, so sending a contingent to Indy wasnt in conflict with any DCA sensibilities. Empire has tough decisions to make in a landscape that is very different than a few years ago....no Crusaders show (in fact, no Crusaders), no Brigadiers show (and no Brigadiers), no weekend DCI shows (Buffalo, Erie, Rome on a Tuesday night just doesnt work), no hosting partners (Patriots, St Joe's, etc), fewer established shows (Hornell used DCA to sub for a fallout with DCI) and fewer corps willing to make the trek to Rochester - even once - because, frankly, they dont have to. There are a great number of CV alums that have driven 250+ miles just to get to rehearsal. Considering most contest were 7-19+ hours away a 285 mile contest seems like a walk in the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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