NeoCervantes II Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I found the following statement from the following article to be really enlightening regarding some of the complaints of extreme front ensemble volumes from certiain corps. The answer is, of course, that they are not mixing for you, but rather, for the guys and gals in the box. Given that fact, does this not make the front seats down low (that used to be fantastic for those that loved in your face brass) relatively worthless? http://www.astralsound.com/vertical_pattern.htm "In free air, sound levels diminish at the rate of 6dB for every doubling of distance. If we take 1m in front of the speaker as our reference (0dB) point, we can see that direct sound from the speaker is 24dB lower at the back of the hall. If the speakers are producing a level of 110dB (SPL) at 1m, the direct level at the back is only 86dB. Most rock & roll audiences would not be impressed with dinner-dance volume. To get 110db at the back, you would - literally - deafen the audience at the front." I suppose that the brass sound would diminish as well, so perhaps I have answered my own question? But if you are sitting within the angle of dispersion of the speakers, between the speakers and the box,, you could be in for a rough ride that they guy ten yards down would not be experiencing. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I suppose that the brass sound would diminish as well, so perhaps I have answered my own question? But if you are sitting within the angle of dispersion of the speakers, between the speakers and the box,, you could be in for a rough ride that they guy ten yards down would not be experiencing. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? None of this is new. Drum corps have been "mixing" for the box since the beginning of the activity. The only difference is that it's more noticeable with the addition of pit amplification. I don't know of a singe corps in DCI or DCA history that had mixed and balanced for the first few rows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 None of this is new. Drum corps have been "mixing" for the box since the beginning of the activity. The only difference is that it's more noticeable with the addition of pit amplification. I don't know of a singe corps in DCI or DCA history that had mixed and balanced for the first few rows. True. For decades, brass lines have been told to "aim for the box." Horn angles would come down for low press boxes and be raised for high press boxes. Does that still happen, or are horn angles now determined for the end of the season and taught according to angle and not where the box is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 None of this is new. Drum corps have been "mixing" for the box since the beginning of the activity. The only difference is that it's more noticeable with the addition of pit amplification. How delightfully naive. Two primary differences: 1. At "the beginning of the activity", everyone was on the field. Now we have devices that are staged 15-30 feet in front of the field, and remain there for the whole show. The phenomenon described in the OP was never a characteristic problem when all players were mobile and capable of restaging. 2. At "the beginning of the activity", we used only instruments that were designed to project from the field. Now, not so much. I am convinced that the solution to this problem is to get the judges out of the press box. Balancing to the box is no longer a tolerable status quo. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emc2 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I found the following statement from the following article to be really enlightening regarding some of the complaints of extreme front ensemble volumes from certiain corps. The answer is, of course, that they are not mixing for you, but rather, for the guys and gals in the box. Given that fact, does this not make the front seats down low (that used to be fantastic for those that loved in your face brass) relatively worthless? http://www.astralsou...cal_pattern.htm "In free air, sound levels diminish at the rate of 6dB for every doubling of distance. If we take 1m in front of the speaker as our reference (0dB) point, we can see that direct sound from the speaker is 24dB lower at the back of the hall. If the speakers are producing a level of 110dB (SPL) at 1m, the direct level at the back is only 86dB. Most rock & roll audiences would not be impressed with dinner-dance volume. To get 110db at the back, you would - literally - deafen the audience at the front." I suppose that the brass sound would diminish as well, so perhaps I have answered my own question? But if you are sitting within the angle of dispersion of the speakers, between the speakers and the box,, you could be in for a rough ride that they guy ten yards down would not be experiencing. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? WHAT THEY NEED IS BETTER SOUND EQUIPMENT. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rd Glasgow BB Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) At the TOC event in East Rutherford when most of the Corps didn't use any form of electronics due to the rain, their pits were completely drowned out (parden the pun) under the on field instruments. I could see them playing but could hear virtually nothing... being ex pit this annoyed me no end!!! Not sure if it's the modern pit instruments choices (mostly vibes & marimbas as opposed to more Xylophones & glocks in my day) that's causing this. Regardles of the reason, modern pits need amped. Edited August 28, 2012 by 3rd Glasgow BB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 At the TOC event in East Rutherford when most of the Corps didn't use any form of electronics due to the rain, their pits were completely drowned out (parden the pun) under the on field instruments. I could see them playing but could hear virtually nothing... being ex pit this annoyed me no end!!! Not sure if it's the modern pit instruments choices (mostly vibes & marimbas as opposed to more Xylophones & glocks in my day) that's causing this. Regardles of the reason, modern pits need amped. Couldn't hear them really? Perhaps you weren't used to hearing them not blaring over the speaker system? It could also be FWIW that horn lines today play with such a small dynamic range that they never play truly soft nor loud anymore; and that would make sense with the pit being amped the way it is today and probably the #1 reason horn lines today seem so weak because the lack of dynamic contrast because of the amped pit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rd Glasgow BB Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Couldn't hear them really? Perhaps you weren't used to hearing them not blaring over the speaker system? It could also be FWIW that horn lines today play with such a small dynamic range that they never play truly soft nor loud anymore; and that would make sense with the pit being amped the way it is today and probably the #1 reason horn lines today seem so weak because the lack of dynamic contrast because of the amped pit. I'm not going to argue over why they can't be heard. I can assure you at that event the non amped pits couldn't be heard over the other on field instruments. When the brass/battery stopped playing I could hear the pit but not while they were playing. I was on the 50 directly in front of the press box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quuadz61 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Ensemble balance is in the ear of the beholder. Not everyone enjoys the same balance so just try to get seats a bit further up if you prefer to not hear so much front ensemble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 At the TOC event in East Rutherford when most of the Corps didn't use any form of electronics due to the rain, their pits were completely drowned out (parden the pun) under the on field instruments. I could see them playing but could hear virtually nothing... being ex pit this annoyed me no end!!! Not sure if it's the modern pit instruments choices (mostly vibes & marimbas as opposed to more Xylophones & glocks in my day) that's causing this. Regardles of the reason, modern pits need amped. It's not so much instrumentation as it is touch. Since they practice with mics they don't have to rehearse playing extremely loud to be heard. Which is why you couldn't hear them when the mics were pulled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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