Triple Forte Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Except that the players no longer control the dynamics... Exactly !! It's simple people...really. Do you think for a minute the person controlling the sound board is going to be timid with the volume? They have the keys to the corvette.....they want to pick and poke and play during a corps performance. I use to be quite involved with mobile dj'ing....and so many times amateur dj's would blast sound far to loud for the room/venue they were working in. Oh...and kudos to Pioneer...no one controlled a sound board during their 2012 show (on the field anyway)..although if they are going to use sound..they need a major upgrade in equipment...sounded awful/distorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rd Glasgow BB Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 odd question to put out there... What if you moved the pit? I'm just thinking it might be easier to balance if it were in the back - control sound in the front. It would mello the harshness of the amps. It might also kill the corps - I do nt know. Just thinking how stages orchestras and rock bands are setup - realize this stage is much bigger. I might be absolutely crazy and you can tell me. Like I said, I know it is an odd question. Phantom Regiment did this a few years back... I think they were on the 30/35 yard line about 2/3rds of the way back. Somebody will help me with the year & exact placement. Will need to look it up on my Legacy DVDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn trumpter guy Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 How did it work? Well? not well? It had to be weird for the marching members. Random thought: this could revolutionize drum corps instruction; it would change 180 degrees from what I was always told. I was told to never listen to the pit. If we moved them to the back sideline, it would be "When are you supposed to listen to the pit?" "ALWAYS!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Exactly !! It's simple people...really. Do you think for a minute the person controlling the sound board is going to be timid with the volume? They have the keys to the corvette.....they want to pick and poke and play during a corps performance. I use to be quite involved with mobile dj'ing....and so many times amateur dj's would blast sound far to loud for the room/venue they were working in. What a DJ does at a dance to "pump up the volume" versus what a corps person at the sound board is doing to make sure the balance is proper are two different things. They aren't even remotely comparable. Plus, you really think a guy standing on the track is just fiddling around during the performance on his/her own? Just as a field level judge can't deterine or evaluate balance, a sound guy on the track is not in a position to do so either. If they are tweaking the sound, it would be with instructions from staff located higher up in the stands. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Hey guys, I was going to save this for a rainy day, but as a former pit performer, percussion instructor, and now 'general audio dude' for things sold, I want to say that there is a lot more at play than is even being touched upon here. There is actually a physics property that applies, and I'll just skim the surface. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huygens–Fresnel_principle Here's what's different in as few words as I can make it. Brass sound, when in tune, follows the principle closely. Essentially, matching waves travel with less impedance. It's the opposite of noise cancelling headphones, as like waves travel together farther than normal. This is the effect that usually gives you goosebumps, though that's a psychoacoustic effect. Amplified sound comes (usually) from two amp spots on the field, usually 90 feet apart. The trajectory of those loudspeakers is different, wider, and not helped (physically) by accompanied instruments. Short analogy, trumpets are firing rifle bullets, amps fire shot from a sawed off shotgun. Mix these two for a single focus point, and much of the remaining grandstands gets a different mix summation. Finally, why didn't it before amps? Same principle of carrying waves. They diminish a lot slower than standard random sound. Consider this thought experiment. 500 ft away, stands 12 trumpets playing the same Bb note (well), and a speaker playing white noise at the exact same volume (amplitude). Which would sound louder at 500ft? What gets to you will get to you in the same half-second, but the measured amplitude... take a guess. I could go on at length, but I'll spare you. Someone did mention moving the pit, and if you moved it to the back of the field, the cone at which the loudspeakers disperse would by its own properties seem more narrow, and would help somewhat. ($1 to TB; had the idea a while ago) However, physics is physics. Moving air is still moving air. By changing the process in which it's moved causes differences in how shows are perceived. There is no "fix" per se; it's simply working with what you've chosen to mould together, and making the best of it. I also don't want to get into an opinionated discussion, but I wanted to point out that there are a lot more things at play than are being discussed so far. Maybe it'll help, maybe not, but there it is. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 this not uncommon in high school marching bands. I can't remember the name off the top of my head but a top BOA band from Florida doesn't even have a battery and their rhythm section is on the back of the field i believe along with their speakers... not sure on the details but I've seen pits in the back of the field before. commonly given reasons why corps don't do this: the rest of the corps would have to learn to listen back it would cut down the visual stage 'you mean the pit can be moved?" I too taught a grounded ensemble, with the first year up front....nightmare. always overpowering a small band. 2nd year, moved em back behind the band balanced the sound out, created a stage for guard equipment changes and......helped the visual scores cause those ####ers couldn't march to save their lives! oh and best season placement and quality wise that program ever had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Phantom Regiment did this a few years back... I think they were on the 30/35 yard line about 2/3rds of the way back. Somebody will help me with the year & exact placement. Will need to look it up on my Legacy DVDs placement close, it was 93 and 94. unamped. and you could hear them yet they didnt play with abusive technique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) placement close, it was 93 and 94. unamped. and you could hear them yet they didnt play with abusive technique I liked those shows... I had forgot about them. Edited August 30, 2012 by Kevin Powell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 After really thinking about it... I am just thinking moving the amps to the back. Pit can stay up front. I'm not sure how this mess is wired or if they are wireless. (it is a mess to me because I'm really not a fan) But if they are amping pit equipment.. put it in the back of the orchestra also. and when I say back... back podium back, not the middle of the field. As for listening back, just depends on where you are on the field.That is a JOY of drum corps. I would think pit in the back would actually help timing for music and marching - at leat it would be constant and not moving around. The pit folks would have the largest adjustment but those cats arent marching and probably have the best timing in the corps. The rules introduced this electricity stuff... Like the industrial revolution, it might take a while to figure out that we are destoying something... it might take a little longer to figure out best practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 And all those corps folks are use to listening back during the winter months. (symphonic band). maybe not the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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