Will The G7 Split From DCI?

[Pete Freedman]

What Mike "said".

Pete, where the heck did you build that theory from?

And did you miss the parts about firing Dan, and the corps running the operations of DCI because they have proven experience? Or how about the part about them being ready to press ahead with the concept, on their own if necessary?

Please, Pete. Read it again.

"Firing Dan":

According to several credible anonymous sources, the board of directors had also taken action at the Rosemont meeting which may affect the tenure of DCI's executive director.

The article does not actually say that it was the G7 per se that tried to "affect the tenure" of Dan Acheson (although it is implied). However, even if it was stated, it would not constitute evidence that the G7 considered or intended to split from DCI.

"The corps running the operations of DCI":

Yes it was a power play. But what is the evidence that they threatened to split from DCI?

"Ready to press ahead with the concept, on their own if necessary":

This would be evidence, if it was present in the article, but it's just not there. Please quote the text that makes you think this.

So far I see evidence that the G7 tried to grab power (and lost it instead), and were able to get some of their requests. At no point does anyone in any of these articles state that the G7 intended, considered or hinted in any way to start a rival drum corps circuit.

I'm not saying they didn't. I'm just looking for the evidence that they did. I was assuming it was out there and I just missed it. Now I'm not sure.

[N.E. Brigand]

One of the original G7 failed to qualify for the top 7, and another fell out of the TOP 12 altogether...

A small correction: Blue Stars, who missed Finals this year, were not part of the original G7. They were allowed into the Tour of Champions in 2011 because they'd placed 8th in 2010 -- not to mention 2008 and 2009. (As I noted above, they would thus have been "permanent" members of the "Premier", "AAA" corps, had the original G7 plan gone into effect.)

[Amil Muzz]

Let me first preface this opinion by stating up front my opinion is my own and does not represent any organization or organizations I am or formerly have been involved with in past, present, or future.

I have been following this whole episode regarding the Separatists.

There are a few things that I find troubling. It does not surprise me that a couple of the teams involved in this move are doing what they are doing. It is the majority of these groups who have apparently forgotten where they came from and how they got there.

Less than 10 years ago, one of these teams was a 16th place drum corps. Now they have moved up the ranks they are going to kick the ladder away from the wall?

Less than 5 years ago, did not earn the place it seems they think they are owed, despite the fact they got a "bailout" from they very organization they are seeking to weaken.

Except for the Santa Clara Vanguard and Cavaliers, two of the founding organizations of DCI, the rest have been defined by DCI. Who are the Bluecoats without DCI Finals? Who are the Blue Devils without DCI in front of the title "champion?" Carolina Crown have the chance to win a DCI championship at every division. Without DCI what is the Phantom Regiment?

To call drum corps a niche activity is such an laughable understatement. It is closer to a cult. These folks have so overestimated their place in the world, the real world, it is almost laughable, if it were not so potentially catastrophic.

We live in a time in which the very future of music education is really in peril. Programs are shrinking or flat out disappearing. People are losing teaching jobs. Parents have to fight harder and harder to keep music apart of their kids lives. In this climate, the "champions" of what we do are so greedy and their view of the world is so warped by the lithe bubble they live in they have to separate themselves from the rest of us.

The rest of us...

The others...

The ones that, apparently, are such a drag of their collective greatness they can't share the stage with us any longer.

I grew up in Wyoming. I moved to Casper in high school and then joined the Troopers "B" corps and got promoted into the "A" corps in 1984. In those days those of us who were local spent time at Mr. Jones' really cool home. On one of my visits, Mr. Jones started telling me the same story Don Warren told on the Brass Roots video that came out in the 90s. At the time I did not understand why he was telling me this story. He told me that when they form "The Combine" that it was to circle the wagons and support each other and govern they're own activity that had evolved beyond the old model. To support each other...

One thing he stressed to me was that DCI was not there to benefit a single corps or a small group of corps, but to support the activity in general.

This model seems to have served the Bluecoats well. Remember when they drove around in Canton Police busses and they had 40 kids in the corps. Remember when they were not corps they are now, was not so long ago.

This model seems to have served Carolina Crown well. Remember when they were in purple barely making finals when they did make finals? Remember when they were the up and coming corps coming off a Div II championship?

How far we've come.

I didn't know Mr. Royer, I have never met Mr. Warren. I did know Jim Jones. I do not think he would be happy with what's happening to his legacy. I do wonder what Mr. Royer, in particular, would think.

We live in such a strange time. Everything is ideology, arguments are always tried to be boiled down into black and white, with no shades of gray. No compromise.

Given this backdrop, I can't help feeling as though we are seeing the "I got mine, screw the rest of you, cause I want more" mentality infect and threaten "this thing of ours." How very sad.

For those of you out there, who like me, have spent a lifetime working and building our respective drum corps and the activity I have a question for you.

"Have we wasted our time?"

Beyond the benefit to our own lives and the benefits our students have gotten from this amazing activity; I think you have to ask yourself that question. Have we spent all of these years building this thing to have hijacked by people who have benefited themselves from all of the work we all have done? That is why I think this is such a tough thing to watch happen.

Because of a few guys and some lemmings who are willing to go over the cliff with them this whole things could be gone in a few years. For what?

I am quite certain that this experiment of theirs is going to be a spectacular failure. The market is simply not big enough. My fear is they will sink the rest of us too. For what?

What's the payoff? More money? More prestige?

Edited November 16, 2012 by Amil Muzz

[Rifuarian]

You won't find a piece of paper that says the G7 was planning to split. The idea comes from two parts of the proposal. First, the idea that the G7 would host a series of shows independently of DCI while still participating in the DCI tour. Second, that the corps would take over certain tasks formerly tasked to DCI (Crown and ticket sales, for example). The idea that the G7 wanted to trial run an independent tour while still remaining within DCI is implicit. As in almost everything else in life you have to read between the lines unless you actually enjoy being spoon fed bull####.

There was some verbal discussion, or rather verbal threatening (bet you can't guess from who!) of a split. But it's not a serious possibility. These corps still need DCI as much as DCI needs them. The idea of a "split" and most of the wackier parts of the G7 proposal all come from one source who went a little overboard when he was asked to come up with a simple presentation.

[3rd Glasgow BB]

One of the original G7 failed to qualify for the top 7, and another fell out of the TOP 12 altogether, so why are you concerned with this ? If these Corps thought they could have bolted from DCI and gone out and made it on their own they would have. But they tried an extortion attempt,but it backfired, the conspirators were replaced on the DCI Executive Board, a couple of them lost on the competition field to the non extortionists Corps, and the entire thing fell apart except the TOC concept as a sop to them. By and large... they lost. DCI survived the extortion attempt, and we can all be grateful for this defeat of a selfish handful that attempted to kill off 20 Drum Corps if their selfish greedy coup attempt was successful. The G7 thing failed. Miserably.Thats great news and the end of the story. We move on to 2013 now. Can't wait.

The G7s attempts at taking over DCI may have failed but that isn't a guarantee that they won't ever rise again.

Personally I don't think the G7 are going anywhere, DCIs noisy neighbours might be silent for now but like all noisy neighbours you never quite know when they'll next P you off.

Edited November 16, 2012 by 3rd Glasgow BB

[Stu]

... To call drum corps a niche activity is such an laughable understatement. It is closer to a cult. These folks have so overestimated their place in the world, the real world, it is almost laughable, if it were not so potentially catastrophic...

Your statement above concerning DCI corps (ie directors) and the cult followers of DCI overestimating their place in the world is, by far, one of the most astute and accurate statements I believe to have been placed on any DCP Forum.

[Pete Freedman]

You won't find a piece of paper that says the G7 was planning to split. The idea comes from two parts of the proposal. First, the idea that the G7 would host a series of shows independently of DCI while still participating in the DCI tour.

...but not actually independent of DCI. The idea seemed to be that DCI would 'run' the show in some sense (for a fee), and, crucially, the shows were listed on the DCI website and carried the DCI logo. I think it was a mistake for DCI to go along with this, because it established a set of shows for the G7 to continue outside of DCI if it wanted. That's like handing Brutus the knife. Still, technically they were DCI shows and were proposed that way in the pdf at least.

Second, that the corps would take over certain tasks formerly tasked to DCI (Crown and ticket sales, for example).

There were a lot of things in the proposal that I read as being partly an attempt at goodwill, partly smokescreen, and partly expressing legitimate concerns over DCI inefficiencies which may have been part of the motive behind the movement. Still, asking DCI to streamline and become more efficient isn't evidence of seeking to split from DCI.

The idea that the G7 wanted to trial run an independent tour while still remaining within DCI is implicit.

I would say:

The idea of G7 running a DCI sponsored 'separate tour' is explicit, not implicit.

The idea of G7 running a non-DCI separate tour, while also doing DCI shows (I think this is what you mean), you may be right, but we'd need more information. For example, it depends in part on whether the other directors and DCI would believe they could pull it off, and whether such a thing had been discussed before. A separate association's shows, not listed on the DCI website, would be a huge challenge to pull off.

It may also be the case the Hop & Co. hoped that everyone would read it as in implicit threat, even though they (G7) might have rejected the idea as unworkable. Perhaps they never discussed it much between themselves, but still hoped it might strike terror into the hearts of the Rosemont attendees, without even having to bring it up. That's just basic strategy, and we can expect that they would use it.

If so, the non-G7 erred by not making it explicit; "Are you saying you might split off and do this on your own if we don't help you." Force them to show their hand, and you can better deal with it.

Because, frankly, I see these TOC shows as a mistake. DCI shouldn't have caved on that one. The G7 are now better able to split off if they want, having already established relationships with the venues and with the fans (presumably they've gotten a bunch of contact info). The whole thing weakens DCI.

If the whole threat was implicit, and in fact unworkable, then DCI didn't need to give an inch. Now they may lose a mile.

As in almost everything else in life you have to read between the lines unless you actually enjoy being spoon fed bull####.

Oh, that'll happen either way!

There was some verbal discussion, or rather verbal threatening (bet you can't guess from who!) of a split.

Who said so? Someone who was present? That's the evidence I'm looking for.

But it's not a serious possibility. These corps still need DCI as much as DCI needs them.

Agreed.

The idea of a "split" and most of the wackier parts of the G7 proposal all come from one source who went a little overboard when he was asked to come up with a simple presentation.

So you think it was all Hop? Well, you said earlier it was implicit in the request for the TOC shows, and that request must have been approved by all 7 directors at least, since it was the core of the proposal. But I get it - you're theorizing, as we all are!

Great info on this thread, folks.

[Pete Freedman]

Your statement above concerning DCI corps (ie directors) and the cult followers of DCI overestimating their place in the world is, by far, one of the most astute and accurate statements I believe to have been placed on any DCP Forum.

Agreed. In any niche sport or activity, the fans will focus on the top performers. But the reason they are fans of the niche activity, rather than football, say, is that they love the activity itself, and they want to support it. They will cheer for whoever is succeeding in the activity. Look at figure skating; the top performers don't even stay around more than a few years! How could they claim it's all about them?

If the G7 disappeared tomorrow, it would be tragic. Shows would take a hit at first, but as soon as people began to focus on the title chase between Madison and Boston Crusaders, say, they'd all come back. And they'd be on the edge of their seats.

[Jeff Ream]

A record of Incorporation is really easy to look up with these two criteria: The name of the Corporation and the State in which they Incorporated. Please post that info from your 'good rumor' source.

Music In Motion I was told, probably CA

[Jeff Ream]

One of the original G7 failed to qualify for the top 7, and another fell out of the TOP 12 altogether, so why are you concerned with this ? If these Corps thought they could have bolted from DCI and gone out and made it on their own they would have. But they tried an extortion attempt,but it backfired, the conspirators were replaced on the DCI Executive Board, a couple of them lost on the competition field to the non extortionists Corps, and the entire thing fell apart except the TOC concept as a sop to them. By and large... they lost. DCI survived the extortion attempt, and we can all be grateful for this defeat of a selfish handful that attempted to kill off 20 Drum Corps if their selfish greedy coup attempt was successful. The G7 thing failed. Miserably.Thats great news and the end of the story. We move on to 2013 now. Can't wait.

the first attempt failed. Doesn't mean they are done.

and anything fundraising for BD would show up under their umbrella. People, you can think it was one and done, but by doing so, you're sticking your head in the sand