cixelsyd Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The G7 believe that the best place for Open class corps to thrive is within regional circuits, not DCI. Many here on DCP have said exactly that over the years. They are not looking to 'hose' the corps; they just don't believe DCI is the proper venue for them. If that is the case, then the 7 should participate in recreating the local/regional circuits - since they were the ones who insisted in folding them into DCI in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Open Class, as much as we like it, isn't exactly cost-effective. George and Co. are right when they say that using the money spent on Open to bolster World will help World corps. I absolutely agree with him. In fact, it may indeed be a far better use of that money in the long run. Before I just sigh and resolve myself to "agree to disagree" status, one question. How much money are we talking about? As I understand it, the only money open class receives from DCI that is up for debate here is the occasional appearance fee when an open class corps appears in a world class tour show. The entire open class tour is run on their own separate, balanced budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Non-profits do good but you cannot simply expect their good to be ubiquitous. Sometimes in order to help people more effectively you need to minimize the sheer number of people you help. And this is what the debate really boils down to - how to slice the pie. The fewer slices, the bigger each slice can be. This shouldn't be demonized. No, but it should be challenged. For instance, in this case, on what basis do you justify taking away the pie slice allotted to open class? It is already so paper thin that it is probably better thought of as the crumbs left in the pie plate. Do they provide no real service of their own to DCI, and thus deserve "no real service" in return? Because in my judgment, if open class serves any purpose at all to DCI, say, as a source of replacements for attrition at the world class level, or even just as part of the greater activity that gives credence to the DCI "world championship" label, then it provides a real service to DCI. the quantity of people you help should not by default trump the quality of help those people receive. Sure. But that is all relative. The pie is currently carved into 22 legitimate slices for the member corps. Those slices are nowhere near equal in size. Thanks to the DCI revenue sharing formula, current and historic "top corps" get slices much larger than other WC corps. Honestly, it makes little difference to each member corps what we do with the open class crumbs - but it makes a huge difference to those open class corps. That is all they get, and it has been proposed to take it all away. Meanwhile, the corps already getting bigger slices demand more still. That would inevitably have to come from the other WC corps. They often tour just as far and work just as hard as the top corps. They need to eat too. Why they are currently fed less is already a matter of debate, in my opinion. But to feed them less still would clearly be an issue with "the quality of help they receive", as you put it. Or are you suggesting that we cut the pie into fewer than 22 slices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Before I just sigh and resolve myself to "agree to disagree" status, one question. How much money are we talking about? As I understand it, the only money open class receives from DCI that is up for debate here is the occasional appearance fee when an open class corps appears in a world class tour show. The entire open class tour is run on their own separate, balanced budget. I thought that in lieu of a regular performance payout there was some sort of post-season lump-sum payment to Open class corps...could be wrong on that, but I thought that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 If that is the case, then the 7 should participate in recreating the local/regional circuits - since they were the ones who insisted in folding them into DCI in the first place. No they didn't. Those circuits just could not survive on their own, so they folded. That is one thing I am afraid of if the G7 split away....that DCI will be the DCM of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) That is one thing I am afraid of if the G7 split away....that DCI will be the DCM of the future. If the G4-7 leave DCI and they fail, the one thing you might likewise " be afraid of " is that they won't won't ( or can't ) incure the " lump sum payment " that DCI could demand be paid to DCI before any discussion of readmittance by DCI of these Corps begins. I suppose theres lots to be " afraid of " if DCI and some Corps decide to bolt DCI, but I wouldn't concern myself with a myriad of possible scenarios right now. Lets jusrt hope that sensible heads prevail here and both camps are able to work out tgheir differences within the umbrella of DCI. DCI has come this far to fracture. Edited February 25, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 If the G4-7 leave DCI and they fail, the one thing you might likewise " be afraid of " is that they won't won't ( or can't ) incure the " lump sum payment " that DCI could demand be paid to DCI before any discussion of readmittance by DCI of these Corps begins. I suppose theres lots to be " afraid of " if DCI and some Corps decide to bolt DCI, but I wouldn't concern myself with a myriad of possible scenarios right now. Lets jusrt hope that sensible heads prevail here and both camps are able to work out tgheir differences within the umbrella of DCI. DCI has come this far to fracture. I don't disagree with this statement at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 No they didn't. Those circuits just could not survive on their own, so they folded. That is one thing I am afraid of if the G7 split away....that DCI will be the DCM of the future. it'll just be time until the G7 would DCM'd too....because once you have a permanent new last place corps...well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 it'll just be time until the G7 would DCM'd too....because once you have a permanent new last place corps...well... I am still not convinced that the G7 goal is to have traditional competitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 No they didn't. Those circuits just could not survive on their own, so they folded. You can make that claim for DCM, but DCE and DCW were just plain merged under the DCI umbrella. Nevertheless, my statement stands - the 7 were among those urging for merging of all three of those circuits into DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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