garfield Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 But looking at your own 990s thread, several of those 7 corps have budgets in the $900k to $1m range. Are you saying that DCI doesn't distribute at least that much to the other 14 or 15 World Class corps every year? Not arguing, but that doesn't seem likely, since all of them show performance fees well in advance of $70/80k. One at a time here... I'm guessing I'm right in saying that your $70m to $80m in "performance" fees you quote includes fees earned for performances other than shows. My hunch - and I could easily verify this with a phone call - is that, on average, the O-15 received much less than $70m from DCI's payout schedule. But, let's assume for the point that you are correct that each of the O-15 corps was paid $75m from the payout grid used by DCI. Fifteen corps x $75m is $1,125,000. Divided by the Seven, it amounts to $160,714.29 each. Are we really to believe that $160m per corps of the Seven is going to make or break their dynasties? For corps who generate and spend, on average, over a million dollars a year, and considering that they proclaim to be the "big draw", I can't swallow that $160m each is sufficient enough validation to rip the activity apart. We're talking about, roughly, 10% of DCI's budget going to the O-15. And 30% of the budget going to the Seven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 He is making an educated guess with some basis in fact to back it up. Charlie1223 uses as part of his theory the tie-in of the corps shows people download to their popularity and ties it to show attendance. You may think that this connection he is using is not valid, that is fine...but he is not just grabbing numbers from mid-air. Why don't you provide your own hypothesis, and not just make a snarky comment about his. Because that was my point - all he has is a hypothesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Slightly moving to a side spur, what amount of their overall revenue would seem reasonable for DCI to be passing on to their member corps? Right now it seems to be about 20-25% of their gross dollars, but given that their primary function, as an organization, is collecting revenues in a central location and passing them out to their members, isn't that a little on the low side? Is there a formula in place that guides their business decisions? For example, if DCI had, as part of their structure, a rule that they had to return forty cents on every dollar made directly to their member corps, it would make every business decision they made all about maintaining that type of efficiency. Do they have such a rule in place now? if not, then why not? Next, from post #47 of the 990's thread: First is "DCI Show Expense": 2009: $4,108,635 2010: $4,424,678 (plus $316,043 [7.7%] over 2009) 2011: $4,878,735 (plus $454,057 [10.3%] over 2010, plus $770,100 [18.7%] over 2009) These numbers include payouts to corps for performances as well as actual expenses to host regional and finals shows. Because we don't know the actual breakdown of where these number were actually spent, we have to guess. Is it reasonable to suggest that DCI spent $800m actually producing shows? If yes, then they paid out about $4mm to member corps. Under the presumptions outlined above, it seems to me that DCI is, in fact, paying out about 40% of the GROSS budget to the corps, just as you suggest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Wow Brasso, where did he state anything close to that? He was providing an example, as noted by the word "if" in his statement. The rest of his statement was the 'then' portion of that 'if' statement. If X, then Y. It was a hypothetical example. I reread it again, I will acknowledge it was a hyppthetical. Moving forward, its ALL hypothetical and just wild speculation here on just about every point made by all of us here regarding this issue as there really is not sufficient information to even make an informed assessment of things.... especially any attempt to attribute the motivation behind a launch of new ventures by DCI, and its timing of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 But looking at your own 990s thread, several of those 7 corps have budgets in the $900k to $1m range. Are you saying that DCI doesn't distribute at least that much to the other 14 or 15 World Class corps every year? Not arguing, but that doesn't seem likely, since all of them show performance fees well in advance of $70/80k. Slightly moving to a side spur, what amount of their overall revenue would seem reasonable for DCI to be passing on to their member corps? Right now it seems to be about 20-25% of their gross dollars, but given that their primary function, as an organization, is collecting revenues in a central location and passing them out to their members, isn't that a little on the low side? Is there a formula in place that guides their business decisions? For example, if DCI had, as part of their structure, a rule that they had to return forty cents on every dollar made directly to their member corps, it would make every business decision they made all about maintaining that type of efficiency. Do they have such a rule in place now? if not, then why not? well, perchance A) shows entertained more people encouraging them to come and b) finals was in a place people wanted to go to...well gee darn, they could pass on more money. I'll lay odds some of these super domed stadiums aren't cheap to run either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Well, it was up. Therefore, good news. In other years when used 'like shows' in their reported attendance you complained about that. yes, because they skewed the stats there too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 One at a time here... I'm guessing I'm right in saying that your $70m to $80m in "performance" fees you quote includes fees earned for performances other than shows. My hunch - and I could easily verify this with a phone call - is that, on average, the O-15 received much less than $70m from DCI's payout schedule. But, let's assume for the point that you are correct that each of the O-15 corps was paid $75m from the payout grid used by DCI. Fifteen corps x $75m is $1,125,000. Divided by the Seven, it amounts to $160,714.29 each. Are we really to believe that $160m per corps of the Seven is going to make or break their dynasties? For corps who generate and spend, on average, over a million dollars a year, and considering that they proclaim to be the "big draw", I can't swallow that $160m each is sufficient enough validation to rip the activity apart. We're talking about, roughly, 10% of DCI's budget going to the O-15. And 30% of the budget going to the Seven. hey that $160 would allow Hop to buy a new guard uniform midseason every year! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 yes, because they skewed the stats there too No, they did not. Did they report wrong numbers? Or is this just because you did not like what they said, therefore it was 'skewed'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 No, they did not. Did they report wrong numbers? Or is this just because you did not like what they said, therefore it was 'skewed'. I was fine with the numbers reported. it was the wording used to make it looked like DCI suddenly became more popular, when in reality, it was just shows someone else ran DCI now ran. But they PR'd it up to look like DCI made this major growth in fan base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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