TOC/G7 Related Discussion

[danielray]

You suggest "tightening-up" the scoring spread to show competitiveness is a good selling point. OK.

The spread of scores among the Seven was nearly identical to the spread of scores among the O-15 (shown above).

So how about the Seven focus on tightening up their own spreads before they start demanding the same of the O-15.

If the Seven were all clustered above 90, and Tier two was clustered around 80 the argument of "stratification" would be more compelling. But the facts show otherwise.

I'm reminded of glass houses and throwing stones...

You've got to admit, given their history of consistency, Cavies last year were kind of a fluke.

I mean... you're talking about a corps that in the past 12 years has placed:

1st - 5 times

2nd - 3 times

3rd - 3 times

4th - 1 time

With last year being their lowest placement in almost 30 years (have been below 5th only ONE TIME since 1984!!!!).

And, with the exception of 2012, they only placed outside the top 3 once in 13 years. Pretty #### consistent.

(jesus... did I really just actually defend the Cavaliers? )

[garfield]

[/size]

You're confusing two different things here...

The point was simply about the current compromise being very temporary... in the hopes of possibly working something out, but if not ..

This is just more of the same threat we've been hearing since 2010.

But, very similar to our current political/societal relationship (which you might know if you still lived here) those who are hearing it are desensitized to that message. If they once cared, they now are more focused on getting up and going to work than whether the world will come to an end according to all the blustering.

Read: Sequestration

The point is not politics. It's that Chicken Little and the wizard behind the curtain both become irrelevant after a time.

[garfield]

Heart Attack Grill's unofficial spokesman dies of heart attack

Not all "Major Leagues" truly are.

[danielray]

That's cute. But he didn't "unfire" himself and you know it.

The O-15 "unfired" him via a legal opinion of what powers the by-laws gave them. Perfectly, legally, and morally within their rights and responsibilities as fiduciaries to the activity as a whole.

As MikeD said, you just don't like their solution.

Stop and think about it for a second...

Regardless of how you may wish to interpret any justification, how successful is any CEO going to be that had been fired due to lack of confidence/decisive leadership upon being reinstated?

It is a bad situation made worse. There is no probably path to success here.

Dan is a really nice guy. That is actually the problem. DCI does not need a nice guy in that role right now. They need a stone cold executive with decades of experience running an events company producing in the range of $40-50M+ annually.

There is no possible path to growth for DCI, and subsequently member corps, without this type of highly-experienced and decisive leadership.

[garfield]

(jesus... did I really just actually defend the Cavaliers? )

Your defending Cavaliers is interesting second only to the fact that you can't refute the numbers.

[Bruckner8]

Very interesting post. You've said a lot. Kids get the strata, for sure, and it still doesn't deter them from trying out; kids get turned away by the droves each year so there's certainly demand to march even though more than two-thirds of the kids know they'll never make a "top" corps in their first couple of years and still choose to march an O-15 corps. That's instructive because it backs up that "flawed" research from Project Persona that clearly showed kids want to "march DCI" and not necessarily their favorite corps - they "march DCI". The strata exists. The tryouts are the proof. That we fill more than twice as many corps than the Seven each year - and turn away many more - proves that the brand *IS* DCI for more than twice as many marchers than march in the Seven. The Seven pokes easy holes in Project Persona, but the proof is in the kids marching non-Seven corps.

The fact is there is plenty of demand to march. The problem is that there are not enough corps to march in, because it takes half-a-million dollars to make a corps competitive even in the second tier of the strata, and $350,000 every year just to be in WC.

I truly believe that this is a "build it and they will come" activity - both marchers and their parents will happily increase if there were places for them to march. The Seven's answer is to increase to 200 marchers, and the math does work. 50 more kids per corps is 650 or more new marchers, and is 1500 or more new fans in family and supporters. That's almost 4 "new corps'" worth of kids soaked up by the existing corps.

The problem with this solution is that it leaves the number of corps the same, just bigger. And that limits the tour size to the existing number of shows on the schedule, which means the same numbers of shows, albeit it with 1500 or so new fans. And the existing fan base in the seats now is not enough, apparently, to support the activity's financial demands.

A better solution is more corps, doing more shows and, at the same time, appealing to a wider audience by not trying to ram down their throats what the artists think they should like in a show and, instead, giving them what they enjoy seeing.

Coincidentally, having fans throwing babies instead of looking like :blink:/>/> does wonders for the spirits of the marching members and widens the appeal of marching NOT at their "favorite" corps. I can guarantee you that Surf's members weren't dampened at all by not placing high when they were standing on the field catching all those babies being thrown.

The real answer is more corps and a wider tour, not fewer corps doing a smaller tour. Combining identity clarity with a wider distribution of BITS and eyeballs is the surest way to attract a fat corporate sponsor. That math works better from a marketing standpoint.

Yes, but to Daniel's point (maybe?), if you DO make clear strata (make it official), it gives more corps a chance to "win something" or be competitive. What was Serf's reward, other the recognition they got at every show, and now in threads like this? If there was a way to stratify by dollars spent, I'd be on board (and I've said this a long time ago). IOW, it should "mean something" to win the "Less Than $350,000" Championship. Then again, wasn't this what Div II/III tried to do?

I dunno...no one's going to change human behavior, that says "I want to perform at the highest levels of [activity X]." For Drum Corps, that means Top 6 (Or higher!) 600+ tr out every year for those top 6 corps, so we know 2000 kids are being either pushed down, or pushed out.

To your point, we need MORE CORPS, with less lofty goals, that still TEACH EXCELLENCE, but know they're only spending $350,000 to make it happen. It's a different goal; different need. They should BE THRILLED when one of their own members makes it to BD the next year! If they're offended, then that means they wish they were a "Big Boy!" THAT DOES NOT WORK.

[garfield]

Stop and think about it for a second...

Regardless of how you may wish to interpret any justification, how successful is any CEO going to be that had been fired due to lack of confidence/decisive leadership upon being reinstated?

It is a bad situation made worse. There is no probably path to success here.

Dan is a really nice guy. That is actually the problem. DCI does not need a nice guy in that role right now. They need a stone cold executive with decades of experience running an events company producing in the range of $40-50M+ annually.

There is no possible path to growth for DCI, and subsequently member corps, without this type of highly-experienced and decisive leadership.

What's the point if the Seven only threaten to bolt if the leadership chooses a path not to their liking?

Physician, heal thy self.

Dan has the support of 15 of 22 corps. The necessary support according to the by-laws.

The other Seven just didn't like their answer.

That's 90% of this battle.

[Slingerland]

It's your solution that I disagree with because the damage done to the O-15 by your solution is not acceptable.

I'd submit that there's a damage done to the brand by identifying certain corps that are really teaching corps, not WC competitive corps, as being "World Class."

Show sponsors and audiences should be confident that if they're paying WC fees for the corps who perform, that a base level of competitive competency will be on display - and that every corps described as World Class is an improvement over a run of the mill BOA marching band. Right now, that's not the case.

The number of corps who would be re-assigned to an appropriate level is relatively small - I'm pretty sure that I've suggested here before that the process be set up to take a few seasons, so that each corps currently in WC is aware that it's a play-in situation for their status. And IF, by putting pressure to perform or move on, it spurs an increase in proficiency and marketability by enough of the lowest ranking WC corps now so that you could make an honest case that the "World Class" league should be 20 corps, then great. Go for 20, but with an understanding that failing to maintain their edge might be cause for someone being dropped down to the mid-level league.

I don't think you can wave a magic wand and create more WC corps. It's too hard to do now, and DCI would take a long time to get to the point where they have enough cash flow to provide enough support to just 18 corps at WC, if that's the way you went.

In terms of questioning whether Dan A is the right guy to lead, others here have asked the same question before. Just sayin'...

Edited March 16, 2013 by Slingerland

[Kamarag]

To your point, we need MORE CORPS, with less lofty goals, that still TEACH EXCELLENCE, but know they're only spending $350,000 to make it happen. It's a different goal; different need. They should BE THRILLED when one of their own members makes it to BD the next year! If they're offended, then that means they wish they were a "Big Boy!" THAT DOES NOT WORK.

In sixty pages of thread, this is probably the most important and accurate thing anyone has said.

[danielray]

Heart Attack Grill's unofficial spokesman dies of heart attack

Not all "Major Leagues" truly are.

"But MLE is no longer a joke. In the last year, it has organized 85 contests with nearly $600,000 in prizes. It has secured sponsorships from Coca-Cola, Harrah's, Netflix, Orbitz, Pizza Hut, Smirnoff, and Waffle House. This year, it recruited Pepto-Bismol, Old Navy, and Heinz to sponsor the hot-dog contest. In addition to MLE's TV programming for Fox, SpikeTV, and other networks, ESPN now pays the league to broadcast the hot-dog contest, with 40,000 spectators on hand and another 1.5 million households watching."

Deep Throat - The depravity of Major League Eating

That info is actually a bit out of date...

"Cable sports network ESPN said Thursday that it has extended its deal to broadcast the Nathan's Famous Fourth of July International Hot Dog Eating Contest through 2017. Terms of the pact with Major League Eating were not disclosed. Last year almost 9 million people watched Joey Chestnut win his fifth straight title on ESPN"

ESPN extends deal to air hot-dog-eating contest

DCI can't even afford to PAY ESPN to broadcast finals on ESPN2... while major league eating is renewed through 2017.... with 9 million viewers!!!!

Again, the issue with DCI is not lack of being a major league... it is lack of major league management able to cut major league deals. It is that simple.

Make it for-profit.... headhunt the type of experienced management needed who are VERY generously incentivized based on % of growth. That is the only real path forward.

To do this, there needs to be an objective assessment of the current situation, with recommendations, performed by a big name consulting firm. This should be used by the head hunter in shopping the deal around to potential CEO candidates (no one worth their salt would consider the opportunity without it).