Question to the old Star Fans

[JimF-LowBari]

Another topic that just won't die (G v Bb).

You don't need to have to conduct a live test. There are *plenty* of recordings of G lines and Bb lines. Listen to the difference. The quality of the horns is clearly audible -- especially as you walk down the standings and compare lower placed corps from the two eras.

There's not really room for debate.

(Of course that won't stop anyone from beating this poor four legged beast into a pulp)

*sigh* just once I wish someone would mention what ERA of G they are talking about.. Not just direct at corpsband as NO one ever does this....

Depending on the era those G horns were not constructed to be as musical as todays Bb horns (did someone say rawness?). As exmple I currently play a Kanstul G horn with 3 values. Musically it's head and shoulders above the 2v and piston/rotor Gs that I have played in the past.

Also those P/R beasts were easy to overblow..... we always got yelled at to listen to ourselves to make sure we didn't do it.

Edited April 5, 2013 by JimF-LowBari

[perc2100]

Today you have talent that comes in and is just molded into a corps. Face it, most that march today come into the corps knowing how to play well already.

You make this argument as if it's a bad thing, and you also make assertions that are maybe partially true (that there are little/no avenues available to members who are not really proficient on an instrument). There are several corps who are either not as strict as one might think (and also don't necessarily advertise, "hey if you can't play baritone we'll teach you as long as you can pay/march") or are open to teaching anyone how to play stuff (Pioneer has always been a corps that will take anyone and teach anyone to play whatever they need).

You're right that there aren't as many corps as there were in the 70's or 80's (there are more WC corps now than when I marched in the late 90's), and you're also right, I think, when you say that talent level is significantly great across the board now than in past eras. But I do think there are opportunities for newbies to learn an instrument: moreso than someone might think, albeit not at a Top 6 level competitively.

[perc2100]

This is called "A Minor". It was written by Josh Talbott. Josh was a mellophone member. I'm not sure when he aged out. He was the pink elephant in the 87 circus show. He also wrote a piece for four mellophones and four baritones called Split Complentaries. It received a perfect 100 at I&E in either 92 or 93. I'm not sure which. This piece was also in Blast as the violet piece with the worm motion. And I didn't even march there. Just a drum corps geek and a Star fan.

Thanks for answer to the OP's question!

[Medeabrass]

In case nobody has already answered, and since I don't feel like reading through pages of G vs Bb arguments to find out, I'll answer the OP's question.

It was an original written by Josh Talbott. The horn sergeant in '93. The same guy who wrote Split Complimentaries for the I&E brass ensemble and later used by Blast!

edit: Cadets98 beat me to it. Wow, what an obscure piece of trivia for a non-alum to remember...kudos to you sir.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Medeabrass

[cowtown]

I never got caught up in this debate much

I appreciate the rawness of G and the smooth tones of B Flat

Given my choice, I’d like some variety and a bit of each through out the ranks

Some shows, corps seem like they could pop more on G where others might sound crass

What I thought sucked monkey was DCI forcing all to switch to B flat while calling it any key. Where are the any keys now DCI? It seem like it’s all 1 key to me, the key that is most lucrative to your masters, the corporate sponsors that feed off the souls of children as dictated by their soulless band instructors. Or maybe DCI judges are hacks and couldn’t judge a line within their own context of key. Which would explain why some of the brass tapes sound like the punch bowl at Up with People was spiked with acid. The G lines should have been cut a bit of slack on some sounds because what they were attempting was more difficult AND due to the nature of the horn. a certain quality of sound should have been acceptable for both. Anyone that only likes one key is clearly not an artist and hardly a musican

[jjeffeory]

Like I said, it's easy to hear the best brass lines of the era playing G and remember the experience through rose-tinted glasses. But the reality was there were a plethora of lesser quality horn lines who only sounded ok, and several that sounded flat out bad. Now a days I think it is unquestionable that there is a more consistent good sound from horn lines top-bottom in the activity, partially because of the instruments being used: it's no real coincidence that quality rose significantly when more corps switched away from G bugles.

I'm going to agree with you about the quality of sound on G bugles to a point.

The lesser quality G horn lines of that era, say around 1987 - 1999, sounded just ok to flat out bad. Today, say 2001 - 2012, there are less corps sounding as bad on the Bbs as I remember hearing from a few of the lower corps in the past ( '87 - '99 on G horns). There were corps who would probably three or four standard deviations below the mean in terms of quality of sound, whatever you want to think of that as...

The flip side of that is that the overtone series and raw power of those G lines when played well was simply magical to my ears. It was worth enduring the bad so that I could be rewarded with the great sounds of the G lines at the top, who I felt were three or four standard deviations above the mean in terms of quality of sound...

As I've said a whole bunch on here over the years, I believe that there are more corps today on Bb horns whose sound fits more closely within one or two standard deviations from the mean in terms of quality of sound and fewer who are three or four standard deviations from the mean.

Yes, more of the corps sound "average" ( for DCI standards) on Bb horns, both on the low end AND the high end. It's just more a homogenization of sound. I'd be for a mixture of corps playing on Gs and Bbs. Also, as the topic has come up before I'm for experimentation of voices in the brass choir. I'm glad that Crossmen have flugels again. It certainly makes them sound unique. I'd be for hearing a frenchie line somewhere as well as maybe someone marching some tromboniums along with the baritones and euphs... It would just make the sound a little more interesting from one corps to another...

Edited April 6, 2013 by jjeffeory

[Cadets98]

In case nobody has already answered, and since I don't feel like reading through pages of G vs Bb arguments to find out, I'll answer the OP's question.

It was an original written by Josh Talbott. The horn sergeant in '93. The same guy who wrote Split Complimentaries for the I&E brass ensemble and later used by Blast!

edit: Cadets98 beat me to it. Wow, what an obscure piece of trivia for a non-alum to remember...kudos to you sir.

Thanks man. To be fair, I am not an alum but I did perform with Blast. I actually got to live in Star hall before it was no more. Some of my best friends in the activity are Star alums. I have yet to meet Josh though. Very little known fact, Carolina Crown brass played A minor in 99. That's where I was first exposed to it. Ray LInkous rewrote it for Bb's for Blast as a warm up too. He put it in concert C minor, which was a little too low, IMO. We did not play it very much.

[Plan9]

You know, listening to this helped me to finally put my finger on why I like those G bugle lines from the 80s and 90s so much.

It's the rawness, I think. It's just a more visceral sound compared with the almost perfectly in tune, just-a-smidge-vanilla sound of drum corps hornlines today.

Seriously, what's wrong with just a little blood in the mouthpiece on finals night anyway? :bleah:/>

Brilliant! Now there's the perfect title for a video history of DCI Brass: "Blood in the Mouthpiece: A History of Extraordinary Brass at DCI Finals"

[HeatherM]

Thanks man. To be fair, I am not an alum but I did perform with Blast. I actually got to live in Star hall before it was no more. Some of my best friends in the activity are Star alums. I have yet to meet Josh though. Very little known fact, Carolina Crown brass played A minor in 99. That's where I was first exposed to it. Ray LInkous rewrote it for Bb's for Blast as a warm up too. He put it in concert C minor, which was a little too low, IMO. We did not play it very much.

Nothing has happened to Star Hall. It still stands. Star United has been there twice this spring for rehearsal camps.

[HeatherM]

Josh wrote this??? First I've heard of that. Many corps use this as a warm-up. Bridgemen Alumni for one, and they have for several years. Props to Josh if he really did, I'll have to go hunt up my music and see if anyone is given credit. Had our version memorized for a few years, so haven't seen the manuscript in a while.