DCI needs to learn...

[Bruckner8]

DCI has no stars. In fact, it is anti-star with the uniforms. American society doesn't care about "artistic whole being greater than the sum of the parts." There are no personalities to market. In the end, DCI is nothing more than "pretty good marching band."

And I'm fine with it, even though many here are not.

Even a symphony orchestra promotes its individuals. Each wind/brass player gets paid more than back-stand violinists. Concerts usually feature a soloist. In fact, most regional orchestras SURVIVE on their ability to attract recognizable soloists...no one cares about the music for its own sake.

The final product of DCI just isn't that interesting to the masses, period (especially the shows that win, yikes). The essence of drum corps is completely lost in a single show. If some hollywood wizards knew anything about drum corps, they'd figure out how to find some personal journeys, pick a few kids from each corps, a few rookies, some all-star vets, etc, and follow their entire journey through the season. They could do an entire show about drum majors, and how everything about the position sucks except the show. IOW, market the individual.

[JimF-LowBari]

The pumpkin championship also has the draw that the entire premise of the show is to see things destroyed...pumpkins, centrifugal and catapult arms, egos...

Turning on Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel voice: Y'all trin' to tell us we don't like to think too much? Ow that hurt my thinkin' machine just speak-i-fying that".

Maybe that's my problem with WC shows. I think too much at work and like to turn off my brain at shows and just enjoy without going for the hidden meanings or how the theme fits.

[Tim K]

In the 1970's and early 80's, when the broadcasts were live on PBS, we didn't know we had it made, but television was very different too. Most households only had the three major networks and PBS, with a few local stations in major markets. PBS was willing to take chances on television shows. Now, as we'veseen with the success of shows such as "Downton Abbey" and their entertainment offerings, PBS is as competitive as any other station. They've upped their production values--PBS rarely looks amateurish these days, and because they are non-commercial, they can take chances on smaller audiences. For me, returning to PBS is the safest bet and I believe this to be the case for the following reasons:

1. PBS already has an audience made up of music lovers and people interested in youth activities, both key drum corps audiences.

2. Because PBS does not have commercials breaks, except when raising funds, longer shows are aired uninterrupted. Commercial networks gear toward attention spans which are shorter than most drum corps shows (I believe we see commercials every eight minutes for dramas and sitcoms).

3. PBS wants to please donors and chances are many drum corps fans already donate to PBS. Parents want quality television for kids, so they support PBS, grandparents never deprive grandchildren of anything, and if Elmo is in danger of going off the air, they'll donate. Drum corps fans have a strong base of parents and grandparents.

4. We may not see finals live, but right now only those in attendance do. While this may be a drawback, I believe the last time finals was broadcast live was in 1980. In 1981 we had DCI Midwest broadcast but I believe that was a week or two later and finals from Canada was not broadcast at all. Perhaps it was broadcast live after that and my recollections are wrong, but for some reason I thought I watched finals long after they took place, maybe as late as Thanksgiving.

There is one serious drawback--DCI would not generate much if any income from a PBS broadcast and while positive publicity is great, it does not pay the bills.

I also should state a disclaimer that may invalidate all my comments—until this post, I had never heard of "Punkin Chunkin" and I attend country fairs to see huge pumpkins get weighed for contests. I never knew I was so deprived!

Edited April 12, 2013 by Tim K

[Stu]

You do realize that this is almost exactly parallel to what DanRay has been promoting for years, don't you?

Not that I disagree with it, but it is interesting that you are repeating one of his prime recommendations.

You mean that Punkin Chunkin only allows an egocentric 7 teams, or an adjusted number of conceited 18 teams, to compete in their sanctioned events? And the leaders of that activity do not allow others who desire to Chunk to become a part of their organization because those teams are considered beneath what someone like the D-Ray claims are the elite? Really? I was not aware of that fact. And since 'that' is the real contention I have with the D-Ray then I retract all I said positive about the Chunkin.

Corporations sometimes need a "loss" on their balance sheet, and the sponsors claim that loss when their underwriting target is a non-profit recipient.

Also a great way to get other corporations to underwrite a contest which is broadcast on national TV.

Wait. Are YOU DanielRay?

:ph34r:/>/>/>/>

You and and I, and maybe the D-Ray, are probably the only ones who get that joke.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Stu

[Stu]

1. PBS already has an audience made up of music lovers and people interested in youth activities, both key drum corps audiences.

And most of those music lovers and people interested in youth activities who watched the DCI broadcasts on PBS failed to donate, or worse failed to honor pledges, and ergo DCI was yanked from PBS.

2. Because PBS does not have commercials breaks, except when raising funds, longer shows are aired uninterrupted. Commercial networks gear toward attention spans which are shorter than most drum corps shows (I believe we see commercials every eight minutes for dramas and sitcoms).

While the show segments are longer, PBS certainly does have commercials, they are called Pledge Breaks and Corporate Sponsor Announcements. Again, DCI failed to secure enough money during those pledge breaks and corporate announcements to keep the broadcast on PBS.

3. PBS wants to please donors and chances are many drum corps fans already donate to PBS. Parents want quality television for kids, so they support PBS, grandparents never deprive grandchildren of anything, and if Elmo is in danger of going off the air, they'll donate. Drum corps fans have a strong base of parents and grandparents.

PBS wants to please donors 'who actually fulfill their pledges'; and those who partook of the DCI broadcast failed to follow through on their pledges. So NO, many drum corps fans do not, and have not, donated to PBS. Again, that is why it was yanked off the network in the first place.

There is one serious drawback--DCI would not generate much if any income from a PBS broadcast and while positive publicity is great, it does not pay the bills.

Try telling the producers of Sesame Street that they were not made rich gazillionaires by being a part of a show broadcast on PBS.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Stu

[Stu]

DCI has no stars. In fact, it is anti-star with the uniforms. American society doesn't care about "artistic whole being greater than the sum of the parts." There are no personalities to market. In the end, DCI is nothing more than "pretty good marching band."

And I'm fine with it, even though many here are not.

Even a symphony orchestra promotes its individuals. Each wind/brass player gets paid more than back-stand violinists. Concerts usually feature a soloist. In fact, most regional orchestras SURVIVE on their ability to attract recognizable soloists...no one cares about the music for its own sake.

The final product of DCI just isn't that interesting to the masses, period (especially the shows that win, yikes). The essence of drum corps is completely lost in a single show. If some hollywood wizards knew anything about drum corps, they'd figure out how to find some personal journeys, pick a few kids from each corps, a few rookies, some all-star vets, etc, and follow their entire journey through the season. They could do an entire show about drum majors, and how everything about the position sucks except the show. IOW, market the individual.

I placed the single most important aspect of your post in bold type for ya.

[Stu]

Turning on Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel voice: Y'all trin' to tell us we don't like to think too much? Ow that hurt my thinkin' machine just speak-i-fying that". :blink:/>

Maybe that's my problem with WC shows. I think too much at work and like to turn off my brain at shows and just enjoy without going for the hidden meanings or how the theme fits.

You are keying in on a another main issue here. 'Art' is not interesting to many people; so much so that most art needs to be underwritten via tax-deductions from philanthropists or subsidized in other ways to even survive. In fact, true 'Artists' are fine with only a select few people understanding the meaning behind their creation as long as they receive compensation through underwriting or subsidizing. 'Entertainment", on the other hand, survives or dies within the world of the free market and relies heavily on the public to sustain. Moreover, when 'Art' goes in the direction of 'Entertainment' it grows in interest amongst ticket buyers (gets more butts in the seats); conversely, when 'Entertainment' goes in the direction of 'Art' it decreases in interest amongst the ticket purchasing public and moves into the realm of small academic showcase venues.

[JimF-LowBari]

You are keying in on a another main issue here. 'Art' is not interesting to many people; so much so that most art needs to be underwritten via tax-deductions from philanthropists or subsidized in other ways to even survive. In fact, true 'Artists' are fine with only a select few people understanding the meaning behind their creation as long as they receive compensation through underwriting or subsidizing. 'Entertainment", on the other hand, survives or dies within the world of the free market and relies heavily on the public to sustain. Moreover, when 'Art' goes in the direction of 'Entertainment' it grows in interest amongst ticket buyers (gets more butts in the seats); conversely, when 'Entertainment' goes in the direction of 'Art' it decreases in interest amongst the ticket purchasing public and moves into the realm of small academic showcase venues.

Sounds like the topic for another thread... "Do you want art of do you want entertainment?".

[Tim K]

And most of those music lovers and people interested in youth activities who watched the DCI broadcasts on PBS failed to donate, or worse failed to honor pledges, and ergo DCI was yanked from PBS.

While the show segments are longer, PBS certainly does have commercials, they are called Pledge Breaks and Corporate Sponsor Announcements. Again, DCI failed to secure enough money during those pledge breaks and corporate announcements to keep the broadcast on PBS.

PBS wants to please donors 'who actually fulfill their pledges'; and those who partook of the DCI broadcast failed to follow through on their pledges. So NO, many drum corps fans do not, and have not, donated to PBS. Again, that is why it was yanked off the network in the first place.

Try telling the producers of Sesame Street that they were not made rich gazillionaires by being a part of a show broadcast on PBS.

You raise valid points, but there is one thing to keep in mind. PBS loses money on many of its programs, including stalwarts as "Masterpiece" and "Live from the Met." Specials such as Celtic Thunder, Andrea Bocelli, Celtic Women, Andre Riu, Suze Orman,etc. aired during fundraising sessions offset the losses. However, PBS has a seasoned audience for Masterpiece and opera, but not drum corps, so they may not feel the need to resume broadcasts. Also, you are right about "Sesame Street." However, when this debate has surfaced in other threads, I thought the biggest reason for ESPN taking over the broadcasts was not PBS abandoning DCI but DCI hoping to make money from the broadcasts. I could be wrong. Remember, I did not know about "Punkin Chunkin" until today, so what do I know?

[TESB]

Although in my perfect world, DCI nats would be on pbs every year, I always thought that was a better fit than ESPN2 because DCI doesn't exactly fit with the timing of normal programming with commercials and such, plus (and I'm probably the only one) I thought the presentation was a bit....melodramatic. But also with pbs, along with the lack of donations and whatnot coming through for pbs, people would probably find it easier these days to rip finals in full from the broadcast and never support dci with dvd sales in the winter months. Lose-lose?

And I guess my thoughts on that idea of art and stuff, I'd rather show someone those recent BD et al shows, which are deemed inaccessible by many in the activity than say, Rach Star. I think someone outside the activity (even someone in music outside of the activity) would probably take the activity more seriously with those denser shows than the hammy band shows people go crazy for.

Edited April 12, 2013 by TESB