fsubone Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Exactly...so the innovator pays the price around here. So....turning it around, what would CC's reception been in Pasadena 2007 with their 2013 show? I'm well aware that many of the things that have been going on in design in the last 6 years have slowly become acceptable. The situation is ironic...that's all. Probably would have been about the same as Cadets was, lots of people complaining for no reason and saying "Drum corps is dead, rabble, rabble" like anytime someone does something new. I mean, look at Crown 2004.... that show seems to be forgotten because of the bad narration in it. Things got better as time went on. When you've got so many fans around here that seem to enjoy living in the past, yes the innovator pays the price for being different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 This is a pretty dumb game to play but I'll go one more round with you. In your pie-in-the-sky hypothetical, you're ENTIRELY wrong. If BD played *any* of Crown's musical arrangements, fans would be throwing babies from the stands. But this is *really* a dumb hypothetical. Klesch's arranging is very much a part of what makes Crown (at least the current version of Crown ) Crown. Same thing with BD and Downey. You may not like it (and may not believe it ) but *many* drum corps fans just don't like the current BD approach to drum corps. AND THAT'S OK. No one wants cookie cutter drum corps. BD's designers know very well they're writing in a style that won't be popular with many drum corps fans. To imagine otherwise is just...inane. And -- FWIW -- if you go back and read DCP, most posters actually agree with you that BD's arrangement of City of Glass was pretty true to the original. Throwing babies for BD? Hello, McFly! There is no chance of that, not until they are out of the medals for a few years...it's just the way it is. They know it, we know it...so they just plow ahead with the best shows they can field and in ways that touch their own design bones. Now, if their designs were met universally with "what the hell is that?" and a loud thud in competition, they would do something else. But (as I have pointed out ad nauseum) BD's reception is amalgam of many things not all having to do with what's on the field. Also, you may want to claim to know what's in the mind of BD's designers (as many do around here) but to think they don't care about the audience is beyond inane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Probably would have been about the same as Cadets was, lots of people complaining for no reason and saying "Drum corps is dead, rabble, rabble" like anytime someone does something new. I mean, look at Crown 2004.... that show seems to be forgotten because of the bad narration in it. Things got better as time went on. When you've got so many fans around here that seem to enjoy living in the past, yes the innovator pays the price for being different. Thank you Bone! That's exactly right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Throwing babies for BD? Hello, McFly! There is no chance of that, not until they are out of the medals for a few years...it's just the way it is. Cough, late 1990s, Cough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Thank you Bone! That's exactly right! We can't really look at DCP though as a representative strata of the DCI fanbase. This is such a limited group, that really seems to represent a limited timespan and experience, that trying to draw opinions from on here is a risky game. I like things out of both Crown's and BD's show this year, and parts I don't like. I like more of BD's show this year than I did last year, only because I like the source music so much. I think in the next year or two, even BD will need to change what they're doing, because their current formula is running a bit stale. See Cadets 05-08 again for example of such. They did very similar shows for four years, then changed as their shows stopped being as effective, and the corps that doesn't change their formula falls behind, see Cavaliers last two years for example. I think next year we'll see another shift from the Devs in terms of show design, or the year after based on the results of this year. All of my BD alum friends I've been talking to seem to all agree this show is a bit of a gamble, since it's cranking up the recent design trend another notch, and it may be one notch too far. When I go to California shows, usually the line for BD's souvie booth is the biggest. This year, after the show, I saw the BD folks with the shortest lines I've seen in awhile. Hopefully their show starts to grab people after awhile, but this could be the straw that breaks the design camel's back as it were. On a side note, that jazz groove during Augurs of Spring is so cool! Love it Edited June 30, 2013 by fsubone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Absolutely -- Crown 2004 ! (oops that's not who you meant was it?) I wasn't around then, having only been in the mix since 2007. But Bone also mentioned that, so I stand corrected. BTW, CC has been enormously innovative...nobody else could have pulled off that amazing 2007 production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Throwing babies for BD? Hello, McFly! There is no chance of that, not until they are out of the medals for a few years...it's just the way it is. They know it, we know it...so they just plow ahead with the best shows they can field and in ways that touch their own design bones. Now, if their designs were met universally with "what the hell is that?" and a loud thud in competition, they would do something else. But (as I have pointed out ad nauseum) BD's reception is amalgam of many things not all having to do with what's on the field. Also, you may want to claim to know what's in the mind of BD's designers (as many do around here) but to think they don't care about the audience is beyond inane. You don't need to be a mindreader to state that BD's design team knows drum corps audiences *and* has a pretty good idea of what will "play" and what will not. Here's what you've done ad nauseum: O, woe is me why will DCP not give BD the love it truly deserves It's just -- ridiculous. I've been in many audiences who threw babies at BD. I've seen crowds literally run down to the bottom of the stands just to get their faces ripped off in the post-show encore because they couldn't get enough of that music during the show. Don't pretend you're the sole arbiter of BD fandom, Plan. You'd be sorely mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 We can't really look at DCP though as a representative strata of the DCI fanbase. This is such a limited group, that really seems to represent a limited timespan and experience, that trying to draw opinions from on here is a risky game. I like things out of both Crown's and BD's show this year, and parts I don't like. I like more of BD's show this year than I did last year, only because I like the source music so much. I think in the next year or two, even BD will need to change what they're doing, because their current formula is running a bit stale. See Cadets 05-08 again for example of such. They did very similar shows for four years, then changed as their shows stopped being as effective, and the corps that doesn't change their formula falls behind, see Cavaliers last two years for example. I think next year we'll see another shift from the Devs in terms of show design, or the year after based on the results of this year. All of my BD alum friends I've been talking to seem to all agree this show is a bit of a gamble, since it's cranking up the recent design trend another notch, and it may be one notch too far. When I go to California shows, usually the line for BD's souvie booth is the biggest. This year, after the show, I saw the BD folks with the shortest lines I've seen in awhile. Hopefully their show starts to grab people after awhile, but this could be the straw that breaks the design camel's back as it were. On a side note, that jazz groove during Augurs of Spring is so cool! Love it It's just not playing out that way. If this were true, we would already see push back and lack luster results. Now, if you are saying that "2nd Place" is the final straw....that's a stretch. In fact, (and I know that Cadets have a title challenging show also) I would suggest that without CC's amazing production this year, it would be BD by a big margin across the country......it's just a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 This is going to be fun .......where to I suggest that you dislike Crown? Can I be any more plain?.....I love Crown and have since one of my favorite shows of all time..."Triple Crown". I am merely TRYING to point out that we (as self-made critics of the activity) give crown more "room" in terms of design than we do for BD. If anything, I guess I'm asking why BD isn't getting the same "room". That's all! I think we should all celebrate these two great corps for bringing something different to the field for our entertainment. Sorry you (and someone else apparently) did not get the point of my post. I edited to use your terminology 'criticizing' rather than 'disliking' in case anyone else in the world would not have grasped the tongue in cheek nature of my statement. I guess I just think it is kind of sad when someone has a complaint that another corps is not criticized ENOUGH. Even if there were a double standard, given that you seem to be saying the criticism is a really bad thing, I don't understand why you would see a problem with Crown (a corps you say you like) not getting more of it. Seems like you would be glad others do not have to endure it. I thought that by mirroring the clearly negative aspect of your post it might help you see that your long time obsession with this issue might not be as healthy as you may assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) It's just not playing out that way. If this were true, we would already see push back and lack luster results. Now, if you are saying that "2nd Place" is the final straw....that's a stretch. In fact, (and I know that Cadets have a title challenging show also) I would suggest that without CC's amazing production this year, it would be BD by a big margin across the country......it's just a fact. If we're only counting trophies in the case as the measure of success. I would look at merchandise sales and audience applause for my measure of success. Look at 2011. BD came out with a beautifully melodic show full of recognizable music. Didn't win. What do they come out with the next year? Harsh dissonance through most of the show. The design stuff doesn't seem to take not winning well Edited June 30, 2013 by fsubone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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