TESB Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) What took you so long ? Poles were pretty much effect genius (well -- for the first 3 minutes or so). ahhh, here's where I think we hold common ground. Le poles were cool, I liked them, but you really had to pay attention to understand what the band did around them and why. To me the poles dictated what the drill looked like, i.e. gridded drill among the poles and more curvy freeform outside of them. they were at times anchors for drill when they got out of the large picture grid. They were an interesting way of exposing body lines and I'm genuinely torn between believing they used the poles to dress forms or they were simply a nuisances to get around especially when set up in the wrong spot. poles, trees, may poles, tribes, cirlces, grid vs freeform and curves, conformity vs. acting out, i got it. but on top of that, they didn't quite pay off like mirrors. It reminded me of the house show where they, well, they build a house. woo. but here I felt like you had to really pay attention, and when you did really pay attention, you saw how all the little logistics of putting a show together with 100 poles can kinda seem like a pain and the kids seemed to spend a lot of time navigating poles in the way of drill and sometimes it was for the worst. The last time or two when the poles were moved, it seemed like they were moved for the sake of being moved. It goes from a plus sign at 8 steps to 4. If there's one thing I've always appreciated in bd drill is very little seems to be arbitrary, and some of the pole stuff in the last half seemed to be a bit arbitrary, making room for the closer, a means to an end Edited November 18, 2013 by TESB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 You're imagining that you can watch a FN video and accurately assess a drum corps performance. You can't. Well, if we're not allowed to comment on shows we haven't seen live, these forums are going to get a lot quieter. (Speaking as someone who didn't see BD live in 2013 but still thinks Crown and SCV were the best this year.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 If they only told John to stay home. The counting was cool i just could not stomach the John do you love me crap. My names not John you trollop! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Well, if we're not allowed to comment on shows we haven't seen live, these forums are going to get a lot quieter. (Speaking as someone who didn't see BD live in 2013 but still thinks Crown and SCV were the best this year.) Not what I said at all -- everyone can comment to their heart's content. I just don't think you can ACCURATELY assess a drum corps performance through a computer screen. I think the commentary in question made that PAINFULLY obvious (eg. in real life those orange stripes were like road flares -- impossible to miss at any distance. But the poster has no idea that was true -- because they didn't actually see them. Most of the poster's comments were of this variety). IMHO modern drum corps (in general) and Crown's recent productions (in particular) are completely lost on video (nevermind streaming media). They just don't translate. So attempting to "armchair ajudicate" is just...futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 IMHO modern drum corps (in general) and Crown's recent productions (in particular) are completely lost on video (nevermind streaming media). They just don't translate. By that logic, I must conclude that there was no 3-D pyramid effect in Crown's show, because I didn't see it until I watched Crown on video. The lack-of-effect that was in front of me live in Massillon didn't translate to the Fan Network. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TESB Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 If they only told John to stay home. The counting was cool i just could not stomach the John do you love me crap. My names not John you trollop! The two lovers on a park bench narration was in EotB. Although the Glass opera is sort of a non plot type of thing, I understood it as the purest form of love poem you could have (I really don't know what I'm talking about) like Brechtian acting in a Rainer Werner Fassbinder film, playing it straight so you can analyze the situation. There isn't actually someone named John and Girl on a park bench, it's supposed to be EotB embodying that emotion in the only way something like EotB could. I think all the renditions of it I've heard, the guy plays it pretty straight with not much milking or forced passion. And frankly, I took it as a little tongue in cheek, the set up is they don't need words to express their divine, everlasting love because it's so darn strong, yet most of the poem is fielding the girl's questions about their love and presumably addresses the girl's doubt that their love can last forever. I felt like Crown turned it into a sincere love story out of nowhere with hallmark channel narration that covered the musical downtime parts of the ballad, which was mostly not EotB. And as a drill writer given a park bench on the 5 or 10, you can definitely imagine why the ballad drill looked the way it did, circles to awkward asymmetrical rays to 3 or 4 different ways of making almost the same set arcs down to the park bench. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 By that logic, I must conclude that there was no 3-D pyramid effect in Crown's show, because I didn't see it until I watched Crown on video. The lack-of-effect that was in front of me live in Massillon didn't translate to the Fan Network. Carefully prefixed that sentence with IMHO ... but I'll play along. No -- that's is NOT a logical conclusion at all since I didn't say the video fails to capture any part of the show (presumably a part you missed live). I just don't think video captures enough of the live production. Perception live is far wider and more agile than a camera lens. I don't think this is any sort of controversial statement. Drum corps is live art form/experience. Our impressions of video are often colored by the experience of the live show so that we remember our reactions/experiences with the product live and enjoy the video through the filter of that experience. I remember Madison '95 live. When I watch / listen to recordings, my experience is influence by that recollection. If one were only to experience shows via recording -- never having experienced it live -- I don't believe you have a real sense for what the production was like at all. "Tic"ing a video is kind of pointless -- it's not how the fans (or the judges) experienced things live. Sure everyone posts reviews on FN videos. But most posters also do that realizing that their opinions may be entirely off-base and throw in some sort of acknowledgement/disclaimer like "this only based on watching the video". In fact most times I watch shows that I don't get, I simply say "I'll have to wait to see it live" instead "oh i hated XYZ". The difference is THAT dramatic. Anyway -- your logic chopping was in error. I didn't suggest that video can't capture a point of view that a live viewing may not. (In fact high cam often does). I did suggest that a video -- especially a FN video -- is not really an adequate medium to capture the live experience. Blu-ray is a LOT better. But it's still not close to the same. And that is IMO a good thing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Carefully prefixed that sentence with IMHO ... but I'll play along. No -- that's is NOT a logical conclusion at all since I didn't say the video fails to capture any part of the show (presumably a part you missed live). I just don't think video captures enough of the live production. Perception live is far wider and more agile than a camera lens. I don't think this is any sort of controversial statement. Drum corps is live art form/experience. Our impressions of video are often colored by the experience of the live show so that we remember our reactions/experiences with the product live and enjoy the video through the filter of that experience. I remember Madison '95 live. When I watch / listen to recordings, my experience is influence by that recollection. If one were only to experience shows via recording -- never having experienced it live -- I don't believe you have a real sense for what the production was like at all. "Tic"ing a video is kind of pointless -- it's not how the fans (or the judges) experienced things live. Sure everyone posts reviews on FN videos. But most posters also do that realizing that their opinions may be entirely off-base and throw in some sort of acknowledgement/disclaimer like "this only based on watching the video". In fact most times I watch shows that I don't get, I simply say "I'll have to wait to see it live" instead "oh i hated XYZ". The difference is THAT dramatic. Anyway -- your logic chopping was in error. I didn't suggest that video can't capture a point of view that a live viewing may not. (In fact high cam often does). I did suggest that a video -- especially a FN video -- is not really an adequate medium to capture the live experience. Blu-ray is a LOT better. But it's still not close to the same. And that is IMO a good thing ! As someone who saw zero 2013 drum corps live, I 100% agree with you. Watching the DVD's or Fan Network streams, I hear a mix of audio through microphones: not the details and intricacies of the actual, unmixed live sound (insert someone's comments about amp'ed pit here...). As for visual, that's even trickier: I see only what the video editor wants me to see: what they feel is the focal point, or what they felt made for a cool camera angle. With as dense as drum corps shows are designed now-a-days, I understand that it is virtually impossible to fully "adjudicate" intricacies of design from my couch. It is 1000% possible to determine a favorite, or personal preference. Of course, personal preference is not always the same as "achieves the most in relation to the rubric on any specific sheets" and that is where I think many people get caught up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 No -- that's is NOT a logical conclusion at all since I didn't say the video fails to capture any part of the show (presumably a part you missed live). I dunno. It seems like you're asking me to trust that the video is correct, i.e., there was a 3-D effect, in contradiction to my own experience of the show. Did I miss it, or was it not really there? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I dunno. It seems like you're asking me to trust that the video is correct, i.e., there was a 3-D effect, in contradiction to my own experience of the show. Did I miss it, or was it not really there? It might have been there but only for a fleeting moment when selected iterations of the local were briefly in phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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