Crown vs. BD this year

[BRASSO]

Does anyone feel like they enjoy BD more than Crown this year?

From reading some of the posts on here, yes there are some people on here that enjoyed BD this past season more than Crown. For my part, I enjoyed Crown more than BD. As for placement, I leave that up to the judges, as I'm not qualified enough and equally enough across the varied captions of brass, percussion, guard, design, execution and demand to make such overall placement and score assessments, So I won't attempt to state who should have finished where.... also, neither BD nor Crown was my most " enjoyable " show for 2013. But that was not the question, so I won't go there with that.

Edited November 13, 2013 by BRASSO

[jaylogan]

I enjoyed BD more as well as Cadets, Bluecoats, and Cavaliers. Those are the shows I keep going back to listen to the most. But Crown was still good.

[TESB]

Well, for subscribers on fannetwork, the finals high cams came out. and all I gotta say is yeesh.

[garfield]

Well, for subscribers on fannetwork, the finals high cams came out. and all I gotta say is yeesh.

OMG! And they re-mixed the audio, too, and it's GLORIOUS! Much, MUCH better than the prior live cut.

[TESB]

Earlier I think I said BD got kinda spooked into a lame finals performance, so I was skeptical about a real reason to feel that one corps lost out. But man from those high cams, it's really apparent how nervous Crown was, they were trembling. mental mistakes everywhere, uncompleted visual ideas, kids kinda mailing it in, not a whole lot of visual discipline, kids fidgeting, almost none of the unison visuals are really together, brass ballad entrance very shaky, the opening preshow set is shaky at best, all those blocks in the opener have shaky cover. That purple really masks a lot of dirt, like a lot. There's so much, I can't even... Even the synth player is turned way up and starts phasing at parts. BD really sold their moments better, too. By my headphones, and it could be the post live cut remix, but BD was louder too without getting blatty or having stickouts and holes.

That soloist from BD really didn't help them out, though...

Edited November 15, 2013 by TESB

[garfield]

Earlier I think I said BD got kinda spooked into a lame finals performance, so I was skeptical about a real reason to feel that one corps lost out. But man from those high cams, it's really apparent how nervous Crown was, they were trembling. mental mistakes everywhere, uncompleted visual ideas, kids kinda mailing it in, not a whole lot of visual discipline, kids fidgeting, almost none of the unison visuals are really together, brass ballad entrance very shaky, the opening preshow set is shaky at best, all those blocks in the opener have shaky cover. That purple really masks a lot of dirt, like a lot. There's so much, I can't even... Even the synth player is turned way up and starts phasing at parts. BD really sold their moments better, too. By my headphones, and it could be the post live cut remix, but BD was louder too without getting blatty or having stickouts and holes.

That soloist from BD really didn't help them out, though...

Oh, what an excellent example of selectively subjective armchair judging. Outstanding!

I totally and completely disagree with you. I see Crown's kids much more relaxed than I would expect them to be considering their chance at the ring. Almost every descriptor you used is purely subjective. I didn't see any mental mistakes or uncompleted visual ideas. In fact, I see tons of completed ideas all visually supporting the show them. You describe them as nervous and jittery and trembling then you suggest they just mailed it in. What bunk. Question, if the purple really masked a lot of dirt, how did you presumably see it? Please. This is all just your bloviating and naval-gazing.

And comparing Crown to BD is apples to oranges. The shows are nearly non-comparable. And the hi-cams so totally clearly show that BD builds its entire show around its drum line and visual package. How's this comparison (although I think it as well is unfair, and I enjoyed BD's show for what it was): For the first four and a half minutes of their show, BD didn't change meter, tempo, or music style (almost to include dynamics). In that same time Crown had six meter changes, multiple forte-pianos, several accel's and ritards and articulation that BD never even approached.

These are facts relating to demand and execution that your opinions excluded. How do you justify kids "mailing it in" while you claim they are simultaneously hyped to be the point of being almost jittery?

Blah, blah, blah. More sour grapes.

Crown won. They couldn't have won if all the mistakes you say you saw were actually witnessed by the highly-qualified judges that were there that night. Stop trying to diminish their achievement with your pseudo-expertise.

Edited November 16, 2013 by garfield

[TESB]

Oh, what an excellent example of selectively subjective armchair judging. Outstanding!

I totally and completely disagree with you. I see Crown's kids much more relaxed than I would expect them to be considering their chance at the ring. Almost every descriptor you used is purely subjective. I didn't see any mental mistakes or uncompleted visual ideas. In fact, I see tons of completed ideas all visually supporting the show them. You describe them as nervous and jittery and trembling then you suggest they just mailed it in. What bunk. Question, if the purple really masked a lot of dirt, how did you presumably see it? Please. This is all just your bloviating and naval-gazing.

And comparing Crown to BD is apples to oranges. The shows are nearly non-comparable. And the hi-cams so totally clearly show that BD builds its entire show around its drum line and visual package. How's this comparison (although I think it as well is unfair, and I enjoyed BD's show for what it was): For the first four and a half minutes of their show, BD didn't change meter, tempo, or music style (almost to include dynamics). In that same time Crown had six meter changes, multiple forte-pianos, several accel's and retards and articulation that BD never even approached.

These are facts relating to demand and execution that your opinions excluded. How do you justify kids "mailing it in" while you claim they are simultaneously hyped to be the point of being almost jittery?

Blah, blah, blah. More sour grapes.

Crown won. They couldn't have won if all the mistakes you say you saw were actually witnessed by the highly-qualified judges that were there that night. Stop trying to diminish their achievement with your pseudo-expertise.

ok. If you didn't see the multiple mental blow-ups on their finals dvd, then I guess we're talking in different dimensions or through different wormholes or something. That show theme supporting galaxy set really hits well before they scatter to the other similarly looking galaxy set. I really dig kids missing visuals in transitions and going to the wrong partner in the ballad. I love it when performers telegraph the next move through leaning or being short or long on their grid dots. There was a serious front to back phase in the brass entrance in ballad and between pit and drums during the feature, which was really enjoyable. Pinwheels which are supposed to be unison sometimes hit at all different times and at different paces really makes the visual package click. Rolling bass drums being over shot on the last crown set dot really don't stick out at all. The accels and ritards muddy foot timing at best, especially compared to the early 2000s, the forte pianos and other embellishments sometimes go against the source material, which is literally playing to the judge sheets.

These aren't all that subjective and just short of empirical (a lot of judging is subjective anyway). As for the purple, just watch any two kids, watch the sequenced horn flashes in the drum feature, watch when pinwheels bow, watch all the different ways they do unison arm visuals, sweeps, and leg visuals. And then watch Cadets. I didn't want to get THAT specific out of respect for kids on the field (I'm sure you think I'm full of that right now), but I figured people just can see this stuff. Armchair judging maybe sure absolutely certainly, but what else is this forum anyway? There is no way anyone from the corps is actually reading any of this, so it's not like they care what any of us say. If it's praise it's not armchair judging; it only seems to be that if you disagree with it.

And idk what to tell you about the meter change stuff, or about the odd practice of picking the first for minutes of the show, but just watch the drum majors dude. BD is in 5, 6, 2, 3, 7, and who knows what else. As for style, BD seems to go between the jazz ballad style of the Sebesky, to the funk, swing, and shout of the Brenzel. The whole show does the structure of Sebesky in the style of Brenzel for the most part. Crown does their own cool thing with brass band and wind band pieces to punctuate and compliment the eotb.

Really no hate, neat show, deserved their 20 in brass by far, music was done really really really really well, have you seen some of those warm up videos or brass sectional videos? just makes me want to go dust off the horn and practice. sorry if I get the thread closed and locked, but you gotta be able to see when kids are doing the meh version of the visuals and drill they were taught.

But really, you're rite, it's silly since I have no stake in it at all to have any opinion, let alone all this shtuff.

Edited November 16, 2013 by TESB

[EDA16]

And comparing Crown to BD is apples to oranges.

So we don't need judges and everyone's a champion...?

[BRASSO]

from those high cams, it's really apparent how nervous Crown was, they were trembling. mental mistakes everywhere, uncompleted visual ideas, kids kinda mailing it in, not a whole lot of visual discipline, kids fidgeting, almost none of the unison visuals are really together, brass ballad entrance very shaky, the opening preshow set is shaky at best, all those blocks in the opener have shaky cover. That purple really masks a lot of dirt, like a lot. There's so much, I can't even... Even the synth player is turned way up

Yes, I'm not sure why Crown didn't finish 12th on Finals Night as they were just a mess ( lol!)

[FTNK]

Come on man, he didn't even come close to saying that