Stu Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) ...before that..who cares thats before many peoples time and young people way before they were even born.... Self-absorbed narcissism of who cares about things before they entered the picture does rule the day in our modern society, I will give you that! Edited December 23, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) double post Edited December 23, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 1. Modern competitive marching band has it's roots in the drum corps activity. I would challenge that presumption. I imagine some people look back at the corps-style marching band movement of the 1970s-1980s, without any knowledge of what preceded it, and think of it as the "roots" of modern competitive marching band. That would be a misconception. Marching bands have had organized competition for at least as long as drum corps. The American Legion and VFW established contest divisions for marching band and drum corps simultaneously following World War I, and both senior and junior bands competed in the veterans events for decades. I have also seen news reports of high school marching band field contests drawing bands from all over the country as early as the 1920s. But to get back to the point - whether any of this is a "natural progression" - you already face a heavy debate there. In my opinion, the corps-style marching band movement was an unnatural progression, the result of a generation of marching music enthusiasts pursuing the path of least resistance in a world where scholastic band had considerable support from tax subsidation while drum corps did not. Even now, the one vocal advocate for turning DCI into marching band claims financial reasons as his motivation. If the drum corps activity actually did morph into marching band in that manner, that would be an unnatural progression as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 It's my belief that some of those rules changes SHOULDN'T have happened (synths, primarily), but anyone who wants to crab about those changes should have a much wider field of vision in their scope than just Hopkins and Gibbs. The votes show that there were plenty of other players in lower-ranked corps who went along (some of them enthusiastically). Could you provide specific examples naming other directors and describing what they did to show their enthusiastic support for these proposals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) "Modern" competitive marching band would indicate the activity as it stands today. BOA is the underlying model for modern marching band. BOA was founded by Larry McCormick as an off-shoot of his equipment and educational services company. Larry McCormick was the long-time percussion writer at The Cavaliers, as well as the primary mover behind their '71 "Circus" show. Larry sure as hell was a drum corps guy, and his business model for BOA and McCormick Enterprises involved selling bands "corps style" arrangements, equipment, drills, etc, etc, etc. So the poster was absolutely correct; "modern" marching band competition has drum corps roots. Any claim to the contrary is ridiculous. -- Could you provide specific examples naming other directors and describing what they did to show their enthusiastic support for these proposals? The proof of the other directors' support for the changes lies in the voting tallies for the proposals. Few of them passed by their chinny chins chins; almost all of them passed with overwhelming majorities. If there wasn't wide support, the proposals would have failed or they would have squeaked by. If you have verifiable stories of the leaders of other corps manning the barricades at the Januals, and vowing to fight electronics, amps, B flat, and all the other proposals with their dying breaths, let's have 'em. Edited December 23, 2013 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 "Modern" competitive marching band would indicate the activity as it stands today. BOA is the underlying model for modern marching band. BOA was founded by Larry McCormick as an off-shoot of his equipment and educational services company. Larry McCormick was the long-time percussion writer at The Cavaliers, as well as the primary mover behind their '71 "Circus" show. Larry sure as hell was a drum corps guy, and his business model for BOA and McCormick Enterprises involved selling bands "corps style" arrangements, equipment, drills, etc, etc, etc. So the poster was absolutely correct; "modern" marching band competition has drum corps roots. Any claim to the contrary is ridiculous. We only disagree on the wording. It is obvious that drum corps people influenced the marching band activity in the 1970s, Larry McCormick being one prominent example. The "roots" of the marching band activity were planted long before that, though. And acknowledging the dramatic influence of such individuals on marching band in the 1970s only reinforces my claim that neither drum corps nor marching band have followed a "natural" progression... they have both been prodded in various directions by individuals and groups with specific agendas for change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 (edited) We only disagree on the wording. It is obvious that drum corps people influenced the marching band activity in the 1970s, Larry McCormick being one prominent example. The "roots" of the marching band activity were planted long before that, though. And acknowledging the dramatic influence of such individuals on marching band in the 1970s only reinforces my claim that neither drum corps nor marching band have followed a "natural" progression... they have both been prodded in various directions by individuals and groups with specific agendas for change. The number of competitive marching bands in the 1950s and 60s were tiny compared to what they are now. The bands now are using a competitive model that had its roots in BOA, which, as noted, was a McCormick invention, modeled after the drum corps format and style of shows. The original poster's point was sound. "Modern" marching band has its roots in 1970s and 80s drum corps. Edited December 23, 2013 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Well, if we don't know why he resigned, then naturally we don't know of a connection one way or the other to his previous proposals. Thats a given. I'm just curious that if you say that Hop's ideas in the past have been supported by majority vote, then why did he resign now ? Is he tired ?, burned out ?, in some impasse disagreement with his fellow BOD members ? Why the resignation ? We ask this in the context that he was booted off the board after the G7 scheme that was cooked behind up closed doors surfaced in 2011... but then was allowed back onto the board via vote of the Board for 2013 as a concillatory measure. Its a legitimate question it seems to me and many others as to why his sudden, unexpected resignation now. You want to ask why he resigned and ponder the possibilities? Fine. I have no idea why, nor do I really care. It is his life, his personal business and his decision to do whatever he thinks best for his life and his organization. It was the context of tieing the voting records of the directors of the past and him resigning today is what I was questioning. If you are moving on to another sub-topic...that is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 So where does this natural progession lead to in your view ? saxophones, flutes, clarinets, etc that MikeD and HOP ( and some others ) feel this compelling need that in their view will make " Drum Corps " somehow more appealing ? Just asking. If we let in everything and everything currently found in the Marching Band realm, just how will your version then of " Drum Corps " be any different than, for example, Bands of America Marching Band units ? Just asking, as I'm interested in the thinking thats taking place in some quarters regarding where they see this natural progression is taking us, thats all. Why do all-state bands exist? Why are the widely successful music camps like Interlochen (to name one)? The DCI ensembles are the peak of the marching.music activity, and anyone who passes their audition, at whatever corps they are trying out for, has the chance to participate. That is, IMO, what makes the summer corps experience unique, not instrumentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 But even in Art, or Pop Music, change is not a 'natural progression' but merely just change. There has been a target ensemble that drum corps has been aiming at for over 50 years, changing ever-so-slowly. So IMO 'natural progression' is a perfectly valid term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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