GUARDLING Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) I have never said that I want to force my beliefs onto others; and I have not appointed myself as the police. I just want to discuss and debate artistic and cultural directions in the context that the marching arts activity may go down the road of the current cultural uplifting of performers like Gaga. Why? Because many people have posted on DCP, including this thread, defending the anything goes philosophy, and they freely admit that they consume the arts in which performers exhibit those behaviors. It appears to me that since many have defended the complete openness of unrestricted artistic presentation here on DCP, the concern I have that it will, maybe incrementally, maybe slowly, but my concern that it will influence DCI and WGI show designs in the future is a valid concern. well if thats what you have got out of it that many,, most whatever do accept the anything goes approach and if its a indication of whats to come and an audience will also want then there you have it....done ! so like other things one has to decide if its for them or not and move on or not..I would think my dead great grandmother gone for decades would be disgusted to see whats on tv today or what people wear or what they listen to and Im not talking the extreme situations I am talking every day TV and acceptance of things which as little as a few years ago wouldnt have been. Is that good or Bad? one decides for themselves. Edited March 18, 2014 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcity Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) Stu, I am sure you are aware that much art that we consider standard today started off as controversial. The Rite of Spring caused a riot, Elvis' gyrating hips were censored from TV, the Tango was seen as licentious, and ironically, decades later, Astor Piazzola fled Argentina after being condemned for messing with traditional tango. Given that time changes perceptions so dramatically, I wonder how you can be so certain that this or that piece of current art is debauched, or dare I say, degenerate? It seems that you are attempting to make an argument for what constitutes good or bad art based purely on moral or perhaps religious grounds. This position strikes me as untenable. Edited March 18, 2014 by quietcity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 My concern here is the genera of DCI, WGI, and BOA, and other marching arts because many instructors and designers consume, defend, and promote behaviors like what just occurred with Gaga. This is exactly the nonsense I'm talking about. You have yet to establish any reasonable meaningful proof that what you're saying in this statement is true. In your mind, if someone likes even one bit of Lady Gaga's music or persona, that MUST MEAN that they approve of every single aspect of what she does. It MUST MEAN that they are actively promoting it as something for the field of competition. There is no room for them to appreciate Lady Gaga for certain aspects of what she does, and still be disapproving of other aspects. You've just taken the automatic leap that, well, if they like Lady Gaga, they must be thinking that it's OK to vomit on the field. With only YOU deciding that's what they want the obvious next step in DCI show evolution to be. Everything with you has to be ONE WAY ONLY. No middle ground. No room for variety or depth in thought. Lost in your own sauce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Yes things are incremental; yes art and culture change over time; yes we live in a rather free society; and there are many paths of art; but at some point the apple you consume becomes an apple-core and if you continue to consume the core you will die from arsenic poisoning. Whether or not y’all realize it most of the responses in this thread indicate that my concerns have some validity. That many who post on DCP desire to consume, and defend, the art which follows down the path that Gaga, her narcissistic desire to exhibit hedonism, and others like her are on; and y’all will continue to willingly consume that apple even as it turns into the core of arsenic. My concern for DCI, WGI, and the other marching arts is that since many within the marching arts eat that particular apple, and they also have a taste for consuming the core, it will at some point influence the marching arts concepts and designs as we proceed into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) Yes things are incremental; yes art and culture change over time; yes we live in a rather free society; and there are many paths of art; but at some point the apple you consume becomes an apple-core and if you continue to consume the core you will die from arsenic poisoning. Whether or not y’all realize it most of the responses in this thread indicate that my concerns have some validity. That many who post on DCP desire to consume, and defend, the art which follows down the path that Gaga, her narcissistic desire to exhibit hedonism, and others like her are on; and y’all will continue to willingly consume that apple even as it turns into the core of arsenic. My concern for DCI, WGI, and the other marching arts is that since many within the marching arts eat that particular apple, and they also have a taste for consuming the core, it will at some point influence the marching arts concepts and designs as we proceed into the future. see this is what people are trying to tell you...you have a point...have an opinion....ok and? the more and more you try to shove YOUR opinion, especially as fact, down everyones throat all you are trying to do is find ways to make YOUR points , dismissing everyone else's OR make yours the ultimate right in the situation..which in most cases isnt the opinion of others. That is fine, make your point. You throw the word narcissistic around alot yet refuse to see thats exactly how you come off. YOU DONT care about other opinions although you claim you do and thats what this forum is about, When opinion differs from yours you berate the other individual until they want nothing to do with the nonsense. Have you opinion, stick by your opinion, live by your own convictions, stop putting others down, as you do for NOT agreeing at all with you. NO MATTER WHAT THE SUBJECT. You dont like a person defending the art as you call it and maybe a little offended by anyone who might, yet you dont have a problem defending your view. Again I will say IF you truly believe that many in the marching arts are leaning in this direction ( which you have yet to give any examples when asked ) then maybe you and your concerns and thoughts are in the minority and you either move on or do something about it. You opinion should be respected because it is YOURS BUT , if any of us agree or not with you it is your opinion BUT thats a 2 way street. Other including myslef know how you bait and even if you have a good point you come off as just wanting to hear your own voice , which nulls any credibility with many...even Jeff posted how your posts are laughable to many designers, staff, or however he put it.. I can vouch for his statement...You might have some points at times...do you really want to be famous for that? or do you want you point made or at least heard........DCP night on the busses of a few corps is laughable, how kids pick out a few and go to town on them..maybe its why DCP has a reputation, the extremes, the over the top, the close minded.................ashame because there are those who past and present experience that have things to offer even if the opinions differ. Your concern for the direction of the activity is admirable , but you are fabricating directions based on nothing and making your own moral judgement. Theres plenty in the world many of us would morally object to, many political hot topics and some would call even the slightest thing extreme , why because its their belief. Are there extremes, ( which is usually where you like to go ) yes of course, are we there? or headed there? well I dont know, give some examples how THIS ACTIVITY is headed there......not other activities , THIS ONE...if you can, then maybe it's debatable I suppose. Edited March 18, 2014 by GUARDLING 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 not in the Mitchell Brothers version Good golly; I just did an online search of the Mitchell Brothers and if we discussed any of their, um, art we would likely be back in the same fear mode you have concerning the name I should not use!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 to be honest, many DCi designers make fun of all of your examples. So, they can make fun of me all they want; but will any of them admit to what they peruse through late at night on the net when nobody is watching? Thought not; but again... we are what we consume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 see this is what people are trying to tell you...you have a point...have an opinion....ok and? the more and more you try to shove YOUR opinion, especially as fact, down everyones throat all you are trying to do is find ways to make YOUR points , dismissing everyone else's OR make yours the ultimate right in the situation..which in most cases isnt the opinion of others. That is fine, make your point. You throw the word narcissistic around alot yet refuse to see thats exactly how you come off. YOU DONT care about other opinions although you claim you do and thats what this forum is about, When opinion differs from yours you berate the other individual until they want nothing to do with the nonsense. Have you opinion, stick by your opinion, live by your own convictions, stop putting others down, as you do for NOT agreeing at all with you. NO MATTER WHAT THE SUBJECT. You dont like a person defending the art as you call it and maybe a little offended by anyone who might, yet you dont have a problem defending your view. Again I will say IF you truly believe that many in the marching arts are leaning in this direction ( which you have yet to give any examples when asked ) then maybe you and your concerns and thoughts are in the minority and you either move on or do something about it. You opinion should be respected because it is YOURS BUT , if any of us agree or not with you it is your opinion BUT thats a 2 way street. Other including myslef know how you bait and even if you have a good point you come off as just wanting to hear your own voice , which nulls any credibility with many...even Jeff posted how your posts are laughable to many designers, staff, or however he put it.. I can vouch for his statement...You might have some points at times...do you really want to be famous for that? or do you want you point made or at least heard........DCP night on the busses of a few corps is laughable, how kids pick out a few and go to town on them..maybe its why DCP has a reputation, the extremes, the over the top, the close minded.................ashame because there are those who past and present experience that have things to offer even if the opinions differ. Your concern for the direction of the activity is admirable , but you are fabricating directions based on nothing and making your own moral judgement. Theres plenty in the world many of us would morally object to, many political hot topics and some would call even the slightest thing extreme , why because its their belief. Are there extremes, ( which is usually where you like to go ) yes of course, are we there? or headed there? well I dont know, give some examples how THIS ACTIVITY is headed there......not other activities , THIS ONE...if yiu can, then maybe it can be debatable I suppose. I never stated anywhere that I desire to force my beliefs onto you or any others. And if you see the exchanges I have had with many in this and other threads you will see respect in both directions; especially when lucid responses are presented to my opinions. And just curious: How do my views that many of the behaviors exhibited in modern culture and modern art are depraved but nevertheless in a free society can be tolerated, and others views on 'how dare anyone make a judgement calling something depraved and we should not only tolerate but accept’, make me closed-minded and them open-minded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 So, they can make fun of me all they want; but will any of them admit to what they peruse through late at night on the net when nobody is watching? Thought not; but again... we are what we consume. People consume lots of things. That you only seem to focus your thoughts and energies in this discussion on the absolute worst in what people might consume (while totally ignoring or dismissing the positive, wholesome, joyous, amazing, and life-affirming things they consume), says more about you than it does them IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) I never stated anywhere that I desire to force my beliefs onto you or any others. And if you see the exchanges I have had with many in this and other threads you will see respect in both directions; especially when lucid responses are presented to my opinions. And just curious: How do my views that many of the behaviors exhibited in modern culture and modern art are depraved but nevertheless in a free society can be tolerated, and others views on 'how dare anyone make a judgement calling something depraved and we should not only tolerate but accept’, make me closed-minded and them open-minded? you can call whatever you want what you want to...that doesnt mean YOUR opinion is fact.you can make a judgement call , by all means you are entitled to yours..... we also are talking about society in general BUT how it relates to drum corps ( DCP remember? not political subjects unless it relates ) and you have yet to give any examples..if I missed them please repeat . I would appreciate it.nooone is telling you you have to accept anything. Edited March 18, 2014 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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