HockeyDad Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Seriously? No special talent? So you're suggesting that Crown, on finals night, could have stuck in any 17 year old from the stands and had him read some words, and the end product would have been as effective as the kids who spent months integrating and perfecting the inflection, diction, and timing? The quartet members timing their counting not only to the corps but also in contrast to the 3 others took no special talent? Could YOU have stepped in and done it (and I presume you have SOME talent)? I suspect they worked on it for months, in much the same way as they worked on their marching and playing. Yes, I am saying that I could have done what they did, with the practice time they had. Absolutely. And I have NO talent. I never said anything about "stepping in off the street with no practice". Of course you have to practice it. BUT... there is no amount of practice that would lead me to play 1st trumpet, for example. I could practice for years and never get close...because THAT takes special talent. That's the difference. Almost any member of that corps could have done that narration with the practice time they have. But that's not the case with the brass players, percussion or guard. (usual disclaimers that this is just my opinion, don't freak out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) No, that is really not true. "Like" is not how a judge reacts to something being performed, be it narration, brass, percussion, guard, etc...a judge is supposed to evaluate how well the whataver-it-is impacts their particular sheet and its criteria, not whether or not the judge "likes" it. A judge can dislike the "whatever" on a personal preference level, yet still credit it with a great score. And if this were the proven and absolute norm then there would be no objections from anyone...or almost anyone. However -- supposed to evaluate and a more simple "evaluates" are two completely different things. To put it a different way: as a poster on DCP, I am supposed to conduct myself in a reasonable manner: however, that doesn't necessarily ensure that I always do. There are two completely different concepts being addressed here -- whether it be my DCP conduct, or DCI adjudication.. Just because one is supposed to act in a certain way does not ensure that such action is, or will be, always followed. Edited April 30, 2014 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Uggh. I see we're still spiraling downward. I was gonna skip reading DCP -- should have done so :-/ Its your choice. Just because someone states that a DCI judge has no more specialized training, or specialized education in their undergrad music classes that makees them any more qualiified to " judge " narration than people here on DCP ( including any ' 12 year olders )" does not mean that that person is advocating that a " 12 year older judge in DCI'. Good grief, get a grip ! You have an unintended accurate assessment of this thread discussion that it is " spiraling out of control " when someone ( you ) tries to connect a comment re. the comparative qualifications to " judge " narration to someone ( me ) supposedly advocating for the silliness of 12 year olders to judge in DCI. This reply of yours was so silly as a reply, then maybe you should take a break, as you are connecting dots that have the dots falling clear off the page now, instead of being connected in any sensible, rational way to one another, imo. A " 12 year old " has as much qualification as a adult Drama coach to hear the narration in a school play, assuming both have good hearing.. Thats just a given. But does this mean we think the 12 year older has the qualifications that the Drama Coach does to judge the school plays in competition with one another in the district ? . Of course not. Its absurd for anyone to state that the former is in any way connected to the latter either, and that the 12 year older has the qualifications to judge school plays just because we just said that he can hear the narration as well as the Drama Coach can.. Edited April 30, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 And if this were the proven and absolute norm then there would be no objections from anyone...or almost anyone. However -- supposed to evaluate and a more simple "evaluates" are two completely different things. To put it a different way: as a poster on DCP, I am supposed to conduct myself in a reasonable manner: however, that doesn't necessarily ensure that I always do. There are two completely different concepts being addressed here -- whether it be my DCP conduct, or DCI adjudication.. Just because one is supposed to act in a certain way does not ensure that such action is, or will be, always followed. when the human factor is involved it always runs the risk of what is supposed or expected ,may or may not be 100 % and almost never perfect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Its your choice. Just because someone states that a DCI judge has no more specialized training, or specialized education in their undergrad music classes that makees them any more qualiified to " judge " narration than people here on DCP ( including any ' 12 year olders " does not mean that that person is advocating that a " 12 year older judge in DCI'. Good grief, get a grip ! You have an unintended accurate assessment of this thread discussion that it is " spiraling out of control " when someone tries to connect a comment from that comment re. the comparative qualifications to " judge " narration to that poster ( me ) advocating for 12 year olders to judge in DCI. This reply of yours was so silly as a reply, then maybe you should take a break, as you are connecting dots that have the dots falling clear off the page now, instead of being connected in any sensible, rational way to one another, imo As usual you carefully substitute words to change things to suit your post. The GP suggested (accurately) that you asserted that DCI Judges are as capable as 12 years olds. This is *exactly* what you said--- he did not (nor did anyone other than you) mention *advocating* (which conveniently covers your ###) . Furthermore I find it interesting that you dropped the "experience" from your list of DCI judge missing qualifications (training, education and experience was the full list). Why is that? Because I countered with experience (which you clearly listed in all your OTHER posts). Oops. Lets conveniently cover our ### again !! Finally you completely deleted the body of my post ( conveniently avoiding having to reply to any of the content therein). More ### covering !!! Silliness indeed. Edited April 30, 2014 by corpsband 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) when the human factor is involved it always runs the risk of what is supposed or expected ,may or may not be 100 % and almost never perfect. Thank you, Guard. That was my very point about 4 pages ago which involved the dichotomy of "Like/Dislike" and subconscious bias. We're humans...we sometimes err (except for you and me, that is). :>) Edited April 30, 2014 by HornTeacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thank you, Guard. That was my very point about 4 pages ago which involved the dichotomy of "Like/Dislike" and subconscious bias. We're humans...we sometimes err (except for you and me, that is). :>) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Judges do indeed have experience and training which equips them to judge narration as part of the show. They've seen it used well and used poorly in many previous shows in various venues and circuits. And in your experience, just what exactly is this specilaized " training " that DCI judges have with narration to adequately " judge " narration as to whether it is " used well " or " used poorly " ? I'll await this educational " training " they have emassed in this. I 'll readily accept without reservation the judges qualifications and " training " to judge " good brassing playing and poor brass playing, and everything else regarding the brass playing... as they have spent years developing this specialized skill in schools of music education that is quite intricate and quite detailed. But the " training " to " judge " narration ? I'm an open book to this. So please go slow, take your time, and explain to me and others on here what specialized and extra ordinary " training " these judges have had in their past for the " judging " of narration that sets them apart from the rest of us unwashed, " untrained ", mouth breathers ? Its narration,ie, the spoken word, for heavens sake.. not fortissimo judging on a baritone segment or whatever that is being judged. Edited April 30, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 And if this were the proven and absolute norm then there would be no objections from anyone...or almost anyone. However -- supposed to evaluate and a more simple "evaluates" are two completely different things. To put it a different way: as a poster on DCP, I am supposed to conduct myself in a reasonable manner: however, that doesn't necessarily ensure that I always do. There are two completely different concepts being addressed here -- whether it be my DCP conduct, or DCI adjudication.. Just because one is supposed to act in a certain way does not ensure that such action is, or will be, always followed. That can apply to judging anything, of course. Judges who do not follow the approved criteria are soon ex-judges. For the purpose of a thread like this, IMO we have to assume we are talking about those who are evaluating the performance properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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