Beginners

[quietcity]

There is actually a farm system far more extensive than in the past...the competitive HS band world. 4,000 competitive bands today versus 400+ competitive corps at the end of the VFW/AL era.

You make an interesting point, and no doubt competitive bands can serve as a major source of members for drum corps. However, this does not represent a true farm system. While there is some coordination, there is no true organizational overlap bridging the two activities. DCI has no control and little input into what competitive bands do. Competitive bands have no mandate to shape their members to fit into the DCI realm.

For an individual marcher in a small corps, the natural desire is to want your own corps to improve and grow, or to eventually move yourself up to WC. I don't think such a desire exists in most band members. They are part of a different world.

[BRASSO]

The day when 10-year-olds like me were signed up to the local VFW corps in town are long gone.

True.. the beer is even getting flat these days at these old VFW halls, as the cobwebs begin to form on the barstools there... and many of the once thriving Churches have been bulldozed and turned into strip malls,drug rehab centers, video game outlets, pawn shops, condos, etc and the like. No question its a different age for youth growing up now in the cities. Even the Music and Marching Band programs are not supported by many US cities anymore and many of these programs have been largely eviserated by local city budget cuts. It is what it is with the choices many of these Cities have made, and so thats that.

Edited May 20, 2014 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

You make an interesting point, and no doubt competitive bands can serve as a major source of members for drum corps. However, this does not represent a true farm system. While there is some coordination, there is no true organizational overlap bridging the two activities. DCI has no control and little input into what competitive bands do. Competitive bands have no mandate to shape their members to fit into the DCI realm.

For an individual marcher in a small corps, the natural desire is to want your own corps to improve and grow, or to eventually move yourself up to WC. I don't think such a desire exists in most band members. They are part of a different world.

You are right in that is isn't a true farm system, but that was true back in the day as well. All corps were primarily independent organizations at whatever-level-they-were, and they were not attached to a big corps (outside of true feeders like the Cadet Plebes for instance...but they did not compete). Kids in Garden State Circuit class 'B' corps competed just fie against other GSC corps, and the real marching junkies who wanted the highlest level experience joined the class 'A' corps in the area, be it Blessed Sac, Garfield, St Lucy's, etc (pre-DCI).

It is more a defacto informal type of thing, as I said i another post. Where are the potential members for DCI drum corps getting their introduction to marching/music? In their band programs, at whatever level they are. The very few (on a percentage basis) who want a summer experience will migrate to drum corps, be it open class or world class, top 12 or not. This is not all that different from the GSC marchers who were very happy staying at that particicipation level, with the relatively few (again, on a percentage basis) choosing to move up the ladder.

[Jeff Ream]

True assessment. Also, these Marching Bands did not want to consider themselves " Drum Corps ", and the " Drum Corps" did not want to be considered" Marching Bands ". There was a separate division for both, although they competed in each division against their own, in the same show competition, on the same day, and with the same judging panel. Fans got to watch and hear both divisions at these circuit shows. But of course now, Mike is on record ( as a former Band Director )that supports woodwinds, and every other single Marching Band instrumentation useage available in DCI. So essentially he is in favor of the High School and College Marching Bands becoming feeder organizations in the future for the future summer DCI Marching Bands. Which of course, its his opinion, and in which he is entitled to of course as well.

HS band will never truly be a feeder system. Oh it'll supply membership, but a true feeder system has some type of reciprocal relationship in terms of what each side provides. Drum corps has nothing it can provide to schools. They can't provide money, and drum corps isn't going to provide staff or directors on their dime.

you look at baseball and it's feeder system, in many cases the parent club owns the minor league team, and the agreements they have provide talent, cash etc. Ok so the Whoopdie Do HS has 3 kids go march in some corps. great! but what can those corps give back?

telling a school administrator that a kid will learn all kinds of life lessons, get better at their instrument means jack #### to a school administrator. That person is worried about test scores. Many school administrators don't even go to their music programs concerts.

so HS band programs can never truly be a feeder system. sure, some kids will decide to go to corps. But you dont even have a majority of HS bands out there that compete that can expose their kids to corps style.

even in my area, for this coming fall, several long time competitive programs have decided to band together and do round robin festival shows, so the kids can perform. These shows are refusing to allow competitive bands in. Why? they don't want their kids exposed to it.

[MikeD]

HS band will never truly be a feeder system. Oh it'll supply membership, but a true feeder system has some type of reciprocal relationship in terms of what each side provides. Drum corps has nothing it can provide to schools. They can't provide money, and drum corps isn't going to provide staff or directors on their dime.

you look at baseball and it's feeder system, in many cases the parent club owns the minor league team, and the agreements they have provide talent, cash etc. Ok so the Whoopdie Do HS has 3 kids go march in some corps. great! but what can those corps give back?

telling a school administrator that a kid will learn all kinds of life lessons, get better at their instrument means jack #### to a school administrator. That person is worried about test scores. Many school administrators don't even go to their music programs concerts.

so HS band programs can never truly be a feeder system. sure, some kids will decide to go to corps. But you dont even have a majority of HS bands out there that compete that can expose their kids to corps style.

even in my area, for this coming fall, several long time competitive programs have decided to band together and do round robin festival shows, so the kids can perform. These shows are refusing to allow competitive bands in. Why? they don't want their kids exposed to it.

It is a feeder system as much as the smaller local corps were feeder systems to bigger corps back in the day.No...not an official feeder like the Trenton Thunder baseball is the NY Yankee's AA team. I don't think anyone claimed something like that.

[Jeff Ream]

It is a feeder system as much as the smaller local corps were feeder systems to bigger corps back in the day.No...not an official feeder like the Trenton Thunder baseball is the NY Yankee's AA team. I don't think anyone claimed something like that.

i think it's less. Why? smaller circuits knew of the big guys. lots of high school bands know zilch about DCI. so, 17 years after we first heard about the need to go after band kids, and that's the future.....yet marketing efforts haven't made a dent. Then again, there's fewer corps now than in 1997, so is it an issue?

This is where Soundsport, Drumline battle and a serious marketing effort needs to come together. But since the powers that be can't agree on much, I doubt they'll agree on this. But ranting about the BOD's issues is for another time and place

[BRASSO]

HS band will never truly be a feeder system. Oh it'll supply membership, but a true feeder system has some type of reciprocal relationship in terms of what each side provides. Drum corps has nothing it can provide to schools. They can't provide money, and drum corps isn't going to provide staff or directors on their dime.

I agree that this is an accurate description of the current relationship, ie its not a true feeder system. Might it become so however in the future ? doubtful, but then again I have no clear crystal ball that tells me that with rapid band instrumentation incorporation change and with a different modeling, that some time in the far distant future that an organized feeder system would be entirely out of the question between scholastic type Bands and future DCI type styled summer circuit Bands.. but who really knows.

Edited May 20, 2014 by BRASSO

[Jeff Ream]

I agree that this is an accurate description of the current relationship, ie its not a true feeder system. Might it become so however in the future ? doubtful, but then again I have no clear crystal ball that tells me that with rapid band instrumentation incorporation change and with a different modeling, that some time in the far distant future that an organized feeder system would be entirely out of the question between scholastic type Bands and future DCI type styled summer circuit Bands.. but who really knows.

time will tell. but if DCI's current marketing efforts are to be used as a baseline....I can't see much success.

[Eleran]

I wasn't sure I was going to mention this, but what the heck - it's relative to this discussion. I'm actually trying to get off the ground a small local drum corps, to fill-in some of the gaps in options for kids 13-18. We're trying to set our season to begin after the end of high school marching, and end before all the May DCI camps, focusing on local parades, civic events, etc., without significant travel or related costs.

I have already had talks with one DCI corps about a sort of feeder relationship, and have reached out to a dozen or so local band directors (some in schools that don't even have a marching band option). I have to say, as a sort of connecting link in the so-called farm system that's been discussed here, I've gotten better response and offers of assistance from the DCI side than from the high school marching band side. I will no doubt have to ramp up my attempts to engage them - so far just an email campaign as to HS directors unknown to me - but I wonder how much cooperation I will get at that end, if any.

[GUARDLING]

True.. the beer is even getting flat these days at these old VFW halls, as the cobwebs begin to form on the barstools there... and many of the once thriving Churches have been bulldozed and turned into strip malls,drug rehab centers, video game outlets, pawn shops, condos, etc and the like. No question its a different age for youth growing up now in the cities. Even the Music and Marching Band programs are not supported by many US cities anymore and many of these programs have been largely eviserated by local city budget cuts. It is what it is with the choices many of these Cities have made, and so thats that.

this is all very true and another reason drum corps numbers are down IMO. Like you said a different age for youth. thats for sure. Some newer things are great, sometimes a more simple way of living was better. I think in some cases alot is missed today, but i guess you cant miss what you didnt have.

Edited May 20, 2014 by GUARDLING