Crown's hornline?

[crownisking]

I still think this is a case of you distorting and rearranging to prove a point. Since you're in such an analytical mood, did you think to compare the amount of time Crown's horns are playing to others?

[actucker]

Once again not responsive.

1. The composer don't write intentionllay hard music:

WRONG but you ignore it.

2. The arranged book is nothing the like original.

WRONG but you ignore it.

3. Accuse me of calling people haters.

WRONG but you ignore it.

I'm more than willing to debate people.

And actually I don't have an agenda at all. I enjoy great drum corps.

But you keep on DCP'ing. It's amusing.

1. The fact that a piece (in this case the Sparke is the only one) is commissioned as a contest piece doesn't mean that the piece is composed to be as difficult as possible. That still doesn't account for the rest of the show. Pretty sure Bowie, Schilling, Glennie, and Giacchino had no interest in their music being considered "difficult".

2. Really. The original piece was written for 80 brass and 35 percussion? Fascinating. Tell me more about how they're playing the exact piece verbatim in their entirety.

3. Scripts, Parrots, claiming that I'm simply following some sort of playbook instead of actually having my own opinions. You don't have to use the word hater to insinuate the same thing. I'm not familiar with any script. Perhaps if several people have the same thing to say about something, that opinion might actually have some validity.

Again, you're not interested in having a debate. You're more interested in this script you think you have. That's fine with me, but drop the insinuation that my opinions aren't valid due to some agenda of mine. Its insulting and inaccurate. I make my living writing playing and teaching music. I'm allowed to have an opinion. At no point have I said that Crown's book isn't difficult. I've said that its debatable whether or not its as difficult as last years, and that I don't think its the ground breaking absurdity that many people paint it as. I pointed out that, like many others in the marching arts, they have figured out that prioritizing a certain skill set over the course of several years can yield really strong competitive results. They aren't the first ones to come up with this, and surely won't be the last. I like a lot of different kinds of drum corps, including Crown. That doesn't stop me from seeing those drum corps for what they are. The kids work hard, and do amazing things. That's not in question. Whether those amazing things are as amazing as other amazing things is the kind of things nerds like me like to analyze. Its not personal. Its not meant to be disparaging. Its simply an analysis. You disagree with my analysis. That's fine. That's the end of it. Others are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours without you trying to discredit them. That's the real DCP playbook.

[IMcomguy]

bmj: Your comment about Blue Devils ended your knowledge on this subject. JMHO.

Edited June 22, 2014 by IMcomguy

[corpsband]

1. The fact that a piece (in this case the Sparke is the only one) is commissioned as a contest piece doesn't mean that the piece is composed to be as difficult as possible. That still doesn't account for the rest of the show. Pretty sure Bowie, Schilling, Glennie, and Giacchino had no interest in their music being considered "difficult".

Contest music is written to challenge the performing ensemble. So your original point is invalidated. Sorry.

2. Really. The original piece was written for 80 brass and 35 percussion? Fascinating. Tell me more about how they're playing the exact piece verbatim in their entirety.

Words in mouth as nowhere did I say they were playing the brass band piece on brass band instruments. Didn't think I needed to make such an obvious point. And no where did I say it wasn't arranged for drum corps.

But those parts are all in there pretty much note for note. You're great at putting words in my mouth

3. Scripts, Parrots, claiming that I'm simply following some sort of playbook instead of actually having my own opinions. You don't have to use the word hater to insinuate the same thing. I'm not familiar with any script. Perhaps if several people have the same thing to say about something, that opinion might actually have some validity.

If you make a statement and don't back it up, and the statement has been repeated multiple times (always in the same format -- just a statement without any sort of support) that's called parroting. You may not like that. Too bad. (in your defense you at least tried to defend it -- few others do)

But it's still a far cry from calling someone a hater.

Again, you're not interested in having a debate. You're more interested in this script you think you have. That's fine with me, but drop the insinuation that my opinions aren't valid due to some agenda of mine. Its insulting and inaccurate. I make my living writing playing and teaching music. I'm allowed to have an opinion. At no point have I said that Crown's book isn't difficult. I've said that its debatable whether or not its as difficult as last years, and that I don't think its the ground breaking absurdity that many people paint it as. I pointed out that, like many others in the marching arts, they have figured out that prioritizing a certain skill set over the course of several years can yield really strong competitive results. They aren't the first ones to come up with this, and surely won't be the last. I like a lot of different kinds of drum corps, including Crown. That doesn't stop me from seeing those drum corps for what they are. The kids work hard, and do amazing things. That's not in question. Whether those amazing things are as amazing as other amazing things is the kind of things nerds like me like to analyze. Its not personal. Its not meant to be disparaging. Its simply an analysis. You disagree with my analysis. That's fine. That's the end of it. Others are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours without you trying to discredit them. That's the real DCP playbook.

Where did I make the claim that you said Crown's book wasn't difficult? Please cite the message.

Where do I make this sweeping claim that others can't have opinions? Please cite the message.

You're constantly making arguments against statements I've never made.

I think your comment about priorizting "a certain skill set" just reveals your ignorance about brass playing in general and is an insult to the entire membership and staff of Carolina Crown. But hey you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I'd like to see you say that face to face to Klesch or Harloff. Or in fact to any brass judge who's judged Crown in the past 5 years. I think you'd have a rude awakening. The depth and breadth of the skills exhibited by Crown go far beyond learning to double tongue or learning to play fast runs. But hey that's just my opinion.

Edited June 22, 2014 by corpsband

[bmjfelts1988]

Keep on attacking the poster instead of focusing on having a civil discussion. So petty. We'll see what happens, I suppose. It is June. A lot can (and likely will) change between now and August. I may very well end up eating my words but for now, I'm going with there is at least one hornline better than Crown on the field right now. I know, what a pitty that Crown's hornline might slide alllllllll the way down to 2nd place in the entire world. The sun will no longer set and the Moon will shatter. What will we do? My gosh, get a grip. Crown's hornline is amazing! Not a single person on this thread is trying to debate that. But heaven forbid there just might be ONE hornline better than the almighty Carolina Crown. Jeesh!

Edited June 22, 2014 by bmjfelts1988

[corpsband]

Keep on attacking the poster instead of focusing on having a civil discussion. So petty. We'll see what happens, I suppose. It is June. A lot can (and likely will) change between now and August. I may very well end up eating my words but for now, I'm going with there is at least one hornline better than Crown on the field right now. I know, what a pitty that Crown's hornline might slide alllllllll the way down to 2nd place in the entire world. The sun will no longer set and the Moon will shatter. What will we do? My gosh, get a grip. Crown's hornline is amazing! Not a single person on this thread is trying to debate that. But heaven forbid there just might be ONE hornline better than the almighty Carolina Crown. Jeesh!

Really? No personal attacks at all on my part. Just responding to his points blow by blow. Ignorance is not an insult -- it just mean lack of knowledge. In this case that's completely self-evident.

I know -- people don't LIKE IT when they post BS and someone calls them on it. It's no fun at all.

You know how to fix it? Stop posting BS.

Keep on DCP'ing

Edited June 22, 2014 by corpsband

[actucker]

Contest music is written to challenge the performing ensemble. So your original point is invalidated. Sorry.

Words in mouth as nowhere did I say they were playing the brass band piece on brass band instruments. Didn't think I needed to make such an obvious point. And no where did I say it wasn't arranged for drum corps.

But those parts are all in there pretty much note for note. You're great at putting words in my mouth

If you make a statement and don't back it up, and the statement has been repeated multiple times (always in the same format -- just a statement without any sort of support) that's called parroting. You may not like that. Too bad. (in your defense you at least tried to defend it -- few others do)

But it's still a far cry from calling someone a hater.

Where did I make the claim that you said Crown's book wasn't difficult? Please cite the message.

Where do I make this sweeping claim that others can't have opinions? Please cite the message.

You're constantly making arguments against statements I've never made.

I think your comment about priorizting "a certain skill set" just reveals your ignorance about brass playing in general and is an insult to the entire membership and staff of Carolina Crown. But hey you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I'd like to see you say that face to face to Klesch or Harloff. Or in fact to any brass judge who's judged Crown in the past 5 years. I think you'd have a rude awakening. The depth and breadth of the skills exhibited by Crown go far beyond learning to double tongue or learning to play fast runs. But hey that's just my opinion.

And only one piece in the entire show is from a "contest piece", so your list of composers is invalidated. And yes, contest pieces are written to challenge the ensemble that they were commissioned for, but they are also NOT written to expose things that that ensemble can't do. You're not going to cover every skill possible on an instrument in once piece. You don't think there's a reason Crown chose the source material they chose?

You're point of view shows just how ignorant you are to how drum corps works. Klesch and Harloff are excellent educators. But you don't think they want to win? You don't think they are intelligent about the literature they choose, and the skills they choose to train in order to make that literature possible? Now who's insulting them?

This is what drum corps do to be competitive. They figure out what their membership can do and what their staff are best at teaching and they choose music and train skills that fit that mold. This is how drum corps start to sound similar to themselves from year to year.

You can keep trying to poke holes in my argument by pointing out that I'm not quoting your comments literally, but its not hard to infer your point. You've convinced yourself that anyone with an opinion other than your own either can't back it up, or is following some sort of script that is meant to disparage a group that they aren't a fan of so that they can feel better about some other group. That's essentially writing those opinions off as those of a hater. Its a pretty arrogant point of view, but its completely transparent in the way you present yourself. Its also possible for someone to make a statement based on your reaction without you having said something out loud. My reassurance that I did not say "Crown's book is not hard" is not based on you having said that. Its based on the insulting tone of your comments which suggest that I said something much more drastic than (and I'm paraphrasing) "their book may not be harder than last years, and is not in my opinion, the hardest thing ever put on a field as many fans seems to suggest".

Frankly, I don't care what you have to say at this point. I'm tired of having you insult my intelligence and my motives simply because I don't agree with you. Its possible for two people to be educated enough to have an opinion, and have those opinions differ. I've made no personal attacks toward you to provoke your attitude, and am not particularly interested in this conversation any more. I've made my points and defended them. There are many folks much smarter than I who agree with me. Drum corps is a game, and Crown knows how to play it. I love listening to them. I love analyzing what they're doing. You've run out of counter arguments so you choose to call me ignorant instead. That's my cue to have nothing more to do with this conversation.

[corpsband]

And only one piece in the entire show is from a "contest piece", so your list of composers is invalidated. And yes, contest pieces are written to challenge the ensemble that they were commissioned for, but they are also NOT written to expose things that that ensemble can't do. You're not going to cover every skill possible on an instrument in once piece. You don't think there's a reason Crown chose the source material they chose?

You're point of view shows just how ignorant you are to how drum corps works. Klesch and Harloff are excellent educators. But you don't think they want to win? You don't think they are intelligent about the literature they choose, and the skills they choose to train in order to make that literature possible? Now who's insulting them?

This is what drum corps do to be competitive. They figure out what their membership can do and what their staff are best at teaching and they choose music and train skills that fit that mold. This is how drum corps start to sound similar to themselves from year to year.

You can keep trying to poke holes in my argument by pointing out that I'm not quoting your comments literally, but its not hard to infer your point. You've convinced yourself that anyone with an opinion other than your own either can't back it up, or is following some sort of script that is meant to disparage a group that they aren't a fan of so that they can feel better about some other group. That's essentially writing those opinions off as those of a hater. Its a pretty arrogant point of view, but its completely transparent in the way you present yourself. Its also possible for someone to make a statement based on your reaction without you having said something out loud. My reassurance that I did not say "Crown's book is not hard" is not based on you having said that. Its based on the insulting tone of your comments which suggest that I said something much more drastic than (and I'm paraphrasing) "their book may not be harder than last years, and is not in my opinion, the hardest thing ever put on a field as many fans seems to suggest".

Frankly, I don't care what you have to say at this point. I'm tired of having you insult my intelligence and my motives simply because I don't agree with you. Its possible for two people to be educated enough to have an opinion, and have those opinions differ. I've made no personal attacks toward you to provoke your attitude, and am not particularly interested in this conversation any more. I've made my points and defended them. There are many folks much smarter than I who agree with me. Drum corps is a game, and Crown knows how to play it. I love listening to them. I love analyzing what they're doing. You've run out of counter arguments so you choose to call me ignorant instead. That's my cue to have nothing more to do with this conversation.

So you imagine what I'm thinking ahd that's what you're responding to -- nothing at all to do with what I ACTUALLY WRITE ?

Got it. Because you just know exacly what I think regardless of what I write. And it doesn't really matter that you're just making #### up.

Oh and your point must be valid (despite evidence to contary) because you've heard other people say it. (scripting anyone?)

And where did I say Crown (and Harloff and Klesch) don't want to win? Lol nevermind I don't need to say it. GOT IT.

Geez do you even read what your write?

And I'm the one personally attacking people?

DCP man -- you gotta love it.

[bmjfelts1988]

Really? No personal attacks at all on my part. Just responding to his points blow by blow. Ignorance is not an insult -- it just mean lack of knowledge. In this case that's completely self-evident.

I know -- people don't LIKE IT when they post BS and someone calls them on it. It's no fun at all.

You know how to fix it? Stop posting BS.

Keep on DCP'ing

I've backed up every point I've made with evidence (time codes for example). Yet, all such evidence has received is excuses such as ...."it's preshow". Now talk about "BS".

[bmjfelts1988]

So you imagine what I'm thinking ahd that's what you're responding to -- nothing at all to do with what I ACTUALLY WRITE ?

Got it. Because you just know exacly what I think regardless of what I write. And it doesn't really matter that you're just making #### up.

Oh and your point must be valid (despite evidence to contary) because you've heard other people say it. (scripting anyone?)

And where did I say Crown (and Harloff and Klesch) don't want to win? Lol nevermind I don't need to say it. GOT IT.

Geez do you even read what your write?

And I'm the one personally attacking people?

DCP man -- you gotta love it.

Indeed, you are the textbook definition of "DCP". Keep on keeping it "real.