Kamarag Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Bah. Double post fail. Edited July 13, 2014 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Well put, John. I do know the EM person. Percussion major. Known him for 32 years. He does know his stuff in spades. I wasn't perfectly positioned to get the real read on the tears. I had a feeling they were there and were big. From my observation, when percussionists are on the Ensemble caption, they're not as afraid to hit people when they need hit. Brass people tend to be more cautious. IMHO, Brass people need to be more like the percussion people in that aspect. Just my 2 cents there. Ray's observation was also a 'wow' when I read it. I whistled when he pointed that out. Part of that is because of the box structures. What criteria do the performances meet or do not meet on the rubrics on the back of the judge's sheet? You attach the numbers that fit what best describes what the performance met- or.. did not meet. That's how the gap was created. It wasn't the intent of the adjudicator to say "Cabs are better than Reading as Reading is better than Sun" (Man! Sounds like some kinda SAT analogy question!) even though that's how it looks. The intent was to tell the corps "You meet these criteria of excellence" (or imply they do NOT meet some...) The number ranges inside each box create those spreads. The number spreads inside each box may also have different ranges on a curve. I don't know what the back of the DCA sheets look like in that regard anymore. It creates a statistical stew, especially when you add in the multipliers for each caption that's not effect, IIRC. The .5 and .6 gap between Reading and Cabs in each EM sub-caption isn't insurmountable but implies there's an metric buttload lot of work to be done..... Hope I helped. My feeling is I gave some people headaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 so you think the bucs can't beat the cabs this year? really? i think the bucs run maybe over but not without a fight. but i wasn't there so we will see. Don's comment reminds me of something important. Just remember what went down in '82. Everyone thought Westshore stuck a fork in everyone and called them done. Sun didn't think so and had something important to say about that. This ain't over. The corps involved know it ain't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDz Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 BigW wrote: "...this ain't over..." Over? NO it isn't. All we did last night is poke a tiny hole in one corner of the nicely wrapped DCA Finals weekend to take a peek at what MIGHT be inside for us. We saw a small piece of the gift inside from a sharp angle: Cabs home show; Bucs second appearance; Atlanta's first invasion of the Union; Fusion staking a claim on some land; etc, etc. Over? NO ! It's just begun...... PLEASE don't rush the season...... what follows Labor Day Weekend finals is lots of snow and grief. Let's enjoy July and August one Saturday at a time. SECAUCUS !!!! Joe PS: You're gonna love Govies show this year ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) I was there. First of all, it was nice to meet JoeDz and so many others. I purchased a seat, but chose to stand all night on the track about the 45 yard line. I really can't be detailed and descriptive about the drill designs. However, I certainly get the impression the Bucs' drill design is working AGAINST the general presentation of their product. The Caballeros' show is 'easier' to grasp. The Cabs' show provides more opportunity to appreciate all the underlying elements within these productions. Frankly, I am disappointed the majority of the 'meat' in the Bucs' show is too far back from the front sideline, with positioning even affecting volume. It wasn't until the last number that I felt "Now, THAT'S what I expect from this corps!" I'm a real 'stickler' for melody. Cabs did more for me here, also. I really didn't know the name of their selections, I just knew it had a distinct Spanish/Latin feel that poured out of the glass smoother. Execution-wise, this non-musician observer didn't see any real difference in talent between the two brass sections. I am disappointed my 'mates' didn't pick-up the win, but can honestly say, a Cabs' victory last night didn't surprise me, and I have no objections. Edited July 13, 2014 by Fred Windish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Well put, John. I do know the EM person. Percussion major. Known him for 32 years. He does know his stuff in spades. I wasn't perfectly positioned to get the real read on the tears. I had a feeling they were there and were big. From my observation, when percussionists are on the Ensemble caption, they're not as afraid to hit people when they need hit. Brass people tend to be more cautious. IMHO, Brass people need to be more like the percussion people in that aspect. Just my 2 cents there. Ray's observation was also a 'wow' when I read it. I whistled when he pointed that out. Part of that is because of the box structures. What criteria do the performances meet or do not meet on the rubrics on the back of the judge's sheet? You attach the numbers that fit what best describes what the performance met- or.. did not meet. That's how the gap was created. It wasn't the intent of the adjudicator to say "Cabs are better than Reading as Reading is better than Sun" (Man! Sounds like some kinda SAT analogy question!) even though that's how it looks. The intent was to tell the corps "You meet these criteria of excellence" (or imply they do NOT meet some...) The number ranges inside each box create those spreads. The number spreads inside each box may also have different ranges on a curve. I don't know what the back of the DCA sheets look like in that regard anymore. It creates a statistical stew, especially when you add in the multipliers for each caption that's not effect, IIRC. The .5 and .6 gap between Reading and Cabs in each EM sub-caption isn't insurmountable but implies there's an metric buttload lot of work to be done..... Hope I helped. My feeling is I gave some people headaches. actually between what you posted and what john posted explained pretty well for me at least. it helped a lot. sounds like the sheets are very difficult to score. and for the record, percussion judges have always been not shy about hitting people. percussionists and the judges are a different kind of person. very rough and critical of each other. but that's a good thing. they all demand perfection. i know . i was a drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Fred hit on something important, and while subtle, may turn out to be a *major* element in Cabs' favor this year... I'm a real 'stickler' for melody. Cabs did more for me here, also. I really didn't know the name of their selections, I just knew it had a distinct Spanish/Latin feel that poured out of the glass smoother. Execution-wise, this non-musician observer didn't see any real difference in talent between the two brass sections. Cabs' brass book is an original piece by Key Poulan, a name not unknown to drum corps fans. He's always done solid work as an arranger of prior works, and a composer in his own right. Key has done something with this show that hasn't been done in drum corps since 1985. I'm going to bold this next part, because it is *critically* important: People are sitting in the stands, and leaving the stadium singing melodies from the Caballeros show. Read that again. I'll wait. Only one other time has this ever occurred...1985 Suncoast Sound's "Florida Suite" by Robert W. Smith. Lots of corps have played original compositions in their shows, and few have dared to compose complete programs, but only once has the above actually occurred. Sure, there are bits and pieces of original music people know (Wayne Downey's "New York Fantasy" is a good example), but multiple melodies and entire sections of a program? No. There was an older guy sitting in the row in front of me who hadn't been to a DCA show in several years. He was humming one of the melodies from Cabs' show as they exited the field. I can sing three different melodies and one feature from their show sitting here at the desk, and I've seen it a total of twice. The importance of that impact on the audience cannot be overstated. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 looks like the bucs run is probably over. things are changing. and this is what happens when a corps doesn't want to do contest's every week. i always thought the bucs didn't compete enough. but congrats to the cabs. they are on their way. ponzo must be very happy. good for you frank! .85 isn't a lot. I haven't seen anyone yet, but the recap is all over the place. Cabs are anywhere from 1st to 4th. Bucs as low as 5th on a sheet. Which means people are judging their sheet and their sheet only, and the show of the day and C2 7th in guard. the one sheet holding them from being up with CV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You know, John, it's funny. I've been watching all the corps on DCI Fan Network. I swear, those guys are moving back toward melody! We truly need more 'tunes' in drum corps, and far less, short, 'air-horn blasts.' I'm really diggin the DCI stuff this year. Maybe there's hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You know, John, it's funny. I've been watching all the corps on DCI Fan Network. I swear, those guys are moving back toward melody! We truly need more 'tunes' in drum corps, and far less, short, 'air-horn blasts.' I'm really diggin the DCI stuff this year. Maybe there's hope. Yes, I completely agree. Check out the Blue Devils. They have an original composition from Gordon Goodwin. That's bananas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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