Staying classy

[Cappybara]

Classy schmassy! This is competitive drum corps, everyone! I'd much rather see the spirit shown by these "f u" shoes in a highly competitive activity like DCI than to have a non-competitive, we're-all-winners, everyone-gets-a-trophy, "education"-based, politically correct, 2-4-6-8-who-do-we-appreciate, kumbaya activity. If anyone is truly offended by this type of thing, then I suggest they go to their local symphony or something.

And for the record, I'm not at all a fan of Cadets' show this year and I am often times a BD honk. Stuff like these shoes is par for the course for a competitive activity, and IMO should be perfectly understandable to MMs and superfans like most of us here.

Grow some skin!~

Being competitive and being classy are not mutually exclusive, as much as you seem to believe otherwise.

[skevinp]

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I heard that Hopkins is enlarging the picture and adding a fifth tarp to the field.

[HornTeacher]

Classy schmassy! This is competitive drum corps, everyone! I'd much rather see the spirit shown by these "f u" shoes in a highly competitive activity like DCI than to have a non-competitive, we're-all-winners, everyone-gets-a-trophy, "education"-based, politically correct, 2-4-6-8-who-do-we-appreciate, kumbaya activity. If anyone is truly offended by this type of thing, then I suggest they go to their local symphony or something.

And for the record, I'm not at all a fan of Cadets' show this year and I am often times a BD honk. Stuff like these shoes is par for the course for a competitive activity, and IMO should be perfectly understandable to MMs and superfans like most of us here.

Grow some skin!~

I really, really hate to say this...but I find your assertions to be totally reprehensible.

Placing an "F U" message does NOT indicate "spirit" within a competitive activity. Rather, it does little more than loudly indicate a total lack of respect for not only your competition, but for the activity as a whole. Even more, I would maintain that it indicates a dose of lack of respect for yourself as well.

Failing to choose to write "F U" on your shoes does not mark you as a non-competitive, we're-all-winners, everyone gets a trophy, "education"-based, politically correct, 2-4-6-8-who-do-we-appreciate, kumbaya activity adherent. It DOES indicate that you choose not to lower yourself to idiotic expressions of infantile, immature behavior.

If one of my students EVER did this (go through the "F U" messaging bit) at a competition, their butt would be on the bus only for as long as it would take me to find a parent (preferably their own) who would watch over their non-participation for the remainder of the competition. Lead trumpet, lead sax, lead snare...wouldn't matter. They'd be gone -- immediately. And a very good chance of permanently.

My overriding message to my competition groups throughout my career has been this:

"You WILL try your hardest to give your absolute finest possible performance...because the guy in the next band will be doing the same. If you win...congratulations. If and when you do, you WILL conduct yourself in a manner befitting an honorable, mature competitior. If your are beaten, you WILL go shake the other guy's hand as say "God bless ya". You were better today. Congratulations. "...and you WILL mean it. As you become known for showing this respect, you will be amazed how it will be returned to you when YOU win. You will receive ten-fold the amount of respect that you yourself have given."

Sorry for the rant, everyone. It's just that I find the posting from above reprehensible beyond belief.

Edited August 9, 2014 by HornTeacher

[Overhype]

Being competitive and being classy are not mutually exclusive, as much as you seem to believe otherwise.

I know they are not mutually exclusive. I am saying that it's understandable for MMs to get caught up in rivalries and competitive drama, and that we as fans should not be so judgmental or sensitive about it. I acknowledge that DCI is highly competitive and the vast majority of the behavior and conduct I have seen from MMs over the last few decades is what I would consider to be classy and appropriate.

[Randy T]

Classy is what the Crossmen did tonight during the finals. They formed into a Delta for Spirit!!!!!! Nice job Bones!

[Overhype]

I really, really hate to say this...but I find your assertions to be totally reprehensible.

Placing an "F U" message does NOT indicate "spirit" within a competitive activity. Rather, it does little more than loudly indicate a total lack of respect for not only your competition, but for the activity as a whole. Even more, I would maintain that it indicates a dose of lack of respect for yourself as well.

Failing to choose to write "F U" on your shoes does not mark you as a non-competitive, we're-all-winners, everyone gets a trophy, "education"-based, politically correct, 2-4-6-8-who-do-we-appreciate, kumbaya activity adherent. It DOES indicate that you choose not to lower yourself to idiotic expressions of infantile, immature behavior.

If one of my students EVER did this (go through the "F U" messaging bit) at a competition, their butt would be on the bus only for as long as it would take me to find a parent (preferably their own) who would watch over their non-participation for the remainder of the competition. Lead trumpet, lead sax, lead snare...wouldn't matter. They'd be gone -- immediately. And a very good chance of permanently.

My overriding message to my competition groups throughout my career has been this:

"You WILL try your hardest to give your absolute finest possible performance...because the guy in the next band will be doing the same. If you win...congratulations. If and when you do, you WILL conduct yourself in a manner befitting an honorable, mature competitior. If your are beaten, you WILL go shake the other guy's hand as say "God bless ya". You were better today. Congratulations. "...and you WILL mean it. As you become known for showing this respect, you will be amazed how it will be returned to you when YOU win. You will receive ten-fold the amount of respect that you yourself have given."

Sorry for the rant, everyone. It's just that I find the posting from above reprehensible beyond belief.

I welcome the discussion, HornTeacher.

I guess I cut corps members a little slack. They bust their collective behinds and focus on a competitive goal for weeks and months in the summer heat. DCI is not a scholastic, extracurricular program. It is pretty much full immersion all summer. Sometimes a MM may get caught up and do something inappropriate like this. I would not condone or encourage this sort of thing, but I accept that it is going to happen from time to time.

And to put this particular action into perspective, while it was inappropriate and generally offensive, it was not violent, vandalizing or immediately provocative.

I actually agree completely with your overriding message to your competition groups, especially in the context of a school program. However, I would have to disagree with automatically removing a student from the program for doing something inappropriate such as this. This situation could serve to be a prime teaching and learning experience for that student and their peers, but not if the student is ousted automatically. The lesson would be that if you make such a mistake, you are not worth keeping around and you should be denied to learn anything further from the program or through the experience. Again, I would tend to cut students and corps members some slack - both as a fan and as an educator.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Overhype

[charlie1223]

Tough rap for The Cadets tonight... Twitter is all abuzz with this pic and they get trumped by Coats.

Edited August 10, 2014 by charlie1223

[HornTeacher]

I welcome the discussion, HornTeacher.

I guess I cut corps members a little slack. They bust their collective behinds and focus on a competitive goal for weeks and months in the summer heat. DCI is not a scholastic, extracurricular program. It is pretty much full immersion all summer. Sometimes a MM may get caught up and do something inappropriate like this. I would not condone or encourage this sort of thing, but I accept that it is going to happen from time to time.

And to put this particular action into perspective, while it was inappropriate and generally offensive, it was not violent, vandalizing or immediately provocative.

I actually agree completely with your overriding message to your competition groups, especially in the context of a school program. However, I would have to disagree with automatically removing a student from the program for doing something inappropriate such as this. This situation could serve to be a prime teaching and learning experience for that student and their peers, but not if the student is ousted automatically. The lesson would be that if you make such a mistake, you are not worth keeping around and you should be denied to learn anything further from the program or through the experience. Again, I would tend to cut students and corps members some slack - both as a fan and as an educator.

I respect your response.

I stand behind my comment that "the student would be gone -- immediately." from the standpoint of that competition (which actually consists of several competitions -- marching, jazz, concert, etc.). And when I mentioned "permanently," I also stated the words "a good chance." Yes, there would be room for reconsideration on my part. No, that is not self-serving waffling. I do believe in fairness, and I do believe in "teaching moments." I think the philosophy I have always instilled in my students, and which I stated in my post, supports this.

Maybe it paints me as an old fogey, but I still do believe in right and wrong, proper and improper, and basic values. And maybe I have been disillusioned by the modern practice of being expected to acknowledge excuses for any transgression -- no matter how flimsy the excuse, or how major the transgression. We live in an age of entitlement; but nobody, for any reason, is to treat a competitor in a way which has led to this entire discussion. I may be wrong...but that's what I am, and will continue to be.

Again, I respect the fact that you have engaged in this discussion in a respectful manner.

[Kamarag]

I stand behind my comment that "the student would be gone -- immediately." from the standpoint of that competition (which actually consists of several competitions -- marching, jazz, concert, etc.). And when I mentioned "permanently," I also stated the words "a good chance." Yes, there would be room for reconsideration on my part. No, that is not self-serving waffling. I do believe in fairness, and I do believe in "teaching moments." I think the philosophy I have always instilled in my students, and which I stated in my post, supports this.

The problem with a zero-tolerance policy like that is you end up punishing the rest of the corps for something they didn't do. Making it a teachable moment is important, and there are other ways to deal with the problem than to send the kid home the morning of semis or finals. What if this was a soloist? Or drum major? And yes, some members are more equal than others, as BAC might tell us. What if, in removing the kid, you cost your corps a medal? Or a spot in finals? Who have you really punished?

There absolutely are actions that should warrant immediate dismissal. Stupid behavior like a goofy photo isn't one of them. You're not punishing the kid for doing it, you're simply punishing him for getting caught.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Kamarag

[InspaDave]