MikeD Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Never said anything about a problem Mike. Just a question of if they if it find it entertaining enough to come back. Some of us find DC entertaiing and MB kinda.. well.... zzzz..... That is why I used the quotes. Why would anyone think that some of the SCV hornline picking up trombones for a short feature is any less entertaining than baritones playing the same parts. If someone did not know anything about DCI and was attending a show, that spot would just have been business-as-usual to them. Its just not a big deal, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I would say that the current crisis, such as it is, started about ten years ago (although probably as an acceleration of an older trend), and may be coming to an end. The G7 movement probably wouldn't have happened if those directors in 2010 didn't perceive some sort of looming disaster. As has been noted, we don't have enough data about attendance over the years, especially overall attendance, to comment for certain. Certainly the total number of competing field corps in North America, as I observed over the summer (in the face of some protest), dropped significantly between 2005 and 2006, going from 89 to 70, and then falling to as low as 64 just last year and only slightly up, to 66, this year. I think anybody who was told that there were 89 drum corps nine years ago and 66 now would say that drum corps was indeed undergoing some sort of crisis. The number of participants has definitely dropped. (Some might claim that this decrease has been offset by a rise in the number of competitive scholastic marching bands, but in Ohio, at least, there are no more students marching competitively now than there were a decade ago.) I would tentatively venture to say that a general malaise already in place, as demonstrated by the 2006 drop, was then exacerbated by the economic collapse that began in late 2007 (and only concluded, in terms of unemployment, early this summer). These things are complex. The question of falling or rising of DCI corps is I think very different from the same question for non-DCI corps (kids training all day all summer is different from the evening/weekend groups, financially and logistically). And both issues are separate from issues of attendance at DCI shows. I'm sure they all relate to each other partially, but it's basically separate trends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 It is different, but there is overlap. Some young people move from DCA to DCI and back. (One Madison Scouts member during this year's season-opening cinema broadcast from Akron was interviewed and noted that he had been a member of the Hawthorne Caballeros. And it seems to be widely understood that Cadets2 pick up a few from Cadets1 after DCI championships.) But you can leave DCA out of the numbers I quoted entirely, if you prefer: there were 61 DCI corps in 2005 and 47 DCI corps in 2014. A 25% drop in ten years is more than significant. And yes, number of participants is different than number of audience, but I daresay more corps likely means more shows almost certainly means more audience. Even if it doesn't mean shows but only more corps at the same number of shows, in this very thread, people have mentioned that they have skipped shows that had too few corps. I'd like to think that drum corps has turned a corner, but it's too soon to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) The simplest way to put this is, growing an audience base means attracting people to a venue who would not otherwise be there, if not for the effort YOU put forth. Step 2 is to get them to return the following year. Justify the investment of their discretionary entertainment dollars. In other words . . . . . make them happy! Seems to me, if you plan to entice new audience members into a sports stadium, they enter with the expectation of being dazzled, and want to meet that emotion with cheers and applause. Over, and over again! The type of DCI programming I witnessed in 2014 was successful in achieving this mission, more so than during some previous DCI years. Shows designs were presented that, I believe, would appeal to audiences outside of family, friends, and former marchers. Show designs that could play in anyone's neighborhood. That's a good thing! Now then, like the movies, That's Entertainment ! Edited September 20, 2014 by Fred Windish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) Can't use quote feature but responding to Pete Freedmans post. Not saying what defines DC just talking about the attendance and what could affect it. Remember I'm from the 70s and know people who went to shows who no longer go today. Lot of reasons why but one (repeat one) of the reasons is they are not entertained enough by todays shows to go anymore. NOT advocating we go back as different strokes for different folks but I can picture that some might not enjoy the changes as much. And MikeD I know new people wouldn't know there was a change but as Fred says above will they come back after seeing it once is the big question. And yes top DC is the top in marching groups today. But speaking for myself I never went to a show to be impressed by what the corps did. I went to be entertained. During the 90s the corps style changed in ways that I wasn't as entertained as much so I walked away for a decade. Back but not like before, I can just see that happening with others. And as long as new peple who do like the changes come on board to keep the activity going then I'm OK with it. PS Re: MB vs DC.... Funny thing is when I marched we had kids (HS'ers in a Sr corps) who were in a competing. MB. Heard a few talking about it and quote was something like "I like DC better because it is so different". I think of that when I see DC = MB..... Edited September 20, 2014 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 But speaking for myself, I never went to a show to be impressed by what the corps did. I went to be entertained. The typical response to a statement like yours is "Excellence is entertaining." And I think that's true, but it's not the whole truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 The typical response to a statement like yours is "Excellence is entertaining." And I think that's true, but it's not the whole truth. I agree, N.E. I think it's obvious that over the years, there have been many shows which the public would have been largely uniform in regarding the excellence of the show, yet when asked if it entertained them, the answer would have been largely "No." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 It's true that the activity has lost that portion of the audience that was only interested in entertainment, so that the fans today skew more toward excellence-as-entertainment than the general public. Still, I agree they'd often like more straightforward entertainment than they actually get. I think that's in part because the shows need to cram in way more moods-per-minute than you would see in any other performing art. They're happy - Blink - they're sad - Blink - they're scary - Blink - they're wistful - Blink - they're tense. I accept it as showing off GE skills, but it probably does cost the activity some fans. But as long as there are enough fans left, it's ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It's true that the activity has lost that portion of the audience that was only interested in entertainment, so that the fans today skew more toward excellence-as-entertainment than the general public. Still, I agree they'd often like more straightforward entertainment than they actually get. I think that's in part because the shows need to cram in way more moods-per-minute than you would see in any other performing art. They're happy - Blink - they're sad - Blink - they're scary - Blink - they're wistful - Blink - they're tense. I accept it as showing off GE skills, but it probably does cost the activity some fans. But as long as there are enough fans left, it's ok. Pete, are you inferring that the general Drum Corps audience is increasingly mirroring the general societal malais of judging according to the level of "instant gratification"? If so, then I stand with you on this sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Nice side discussion on what I mentioned with no snide comments.. bravo... My excellence vs entertainment moment came the last show I saw for 10 years in the 90s. Corps did horn hit.. no music, horn hit.. no music for what seemed like 30 or so seconds. Top corps and doe very well for something that would be tough for a large line spread out over the field. But after a while I was thinking "OK you've impressed me with what you can do, now how about entertaining me (with music)". And my background IMO helps me see this in a different way. Actaully spent my first few years in a rebuilding corps competing in a lower level circuit. Came to see and understand the corps that came to entertain as they were not to be excellent that year. Too many details to explain why.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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