DCI 2014 had attendance growth from previous couple of years

[Pete Freedman]

I'm a numbskull. No doubt about it. I had meant to use the term G7, not finalist, and have since corrected it.

[And no, I don't think G7 are all that and everyone else sucks (after all, my son is trying for Boston) ... but my concern is for Tournament of Champions creating such a public rift]

Spirit also made finals last year, so they were a finalist corps at the time as well.

[Pete Freedman]

Likely so.

...

If there had been no artsy shows, band instruments or perennially dominant corps prior to 2014, maybe your statement would make sense. But to evaluate the impact of these changes, we would have to look back to just before they actually took place - somewhere in the 1982-1999 range.

I was referring to the complaints about recent shows like Cabaret Voltaire, e=mc2, Side-By-Side, etc. that are allegedly alienating the fans. And of course the new rule allowing more band instruments than were allowed previously.

I agree there were plenty of artsy shows in the past, and to some extent things may not have actually changed that much. But my point is that the recent changes do not seem to have impacted popularity as some predicted.

As to the impact of these factors over the decades, that is as you suggest an open question.

[JimF-LowBari]

As for pro/con on the new instruments lets wait for 2015. People who went to the shows probably went with an open mind if they knew about the changes. Now that they have seen what went on the field the question is will it keep them coming back. And as for people who don't follow DCI on line and knew nothing about what was coming.... surprise.....

[MikeD]

As for pro/con on the new instruments lets wait for 2015. People who went to the shows probably went with an open mind if they knew about the changes. Now that they have seen what went on the field the question is will it keep them coming back. And as for people who don't follow DCI on line and knew nothing about what was coming.... surprise.....

Personally, outside of the older fans, I doubt many of the fans would even know that there is "supposed to be" a problem with seeing a trombone of french horn being used for small moments of a show.

[JimF-LowBari]

Personally, outside of the older fans, I doubt many of the fans would even know that there is "supposed to be" a problem with seeing a trombone of french horn being used for small moments of a show.

Never said anything about a problem Mike. Just a question of if they if it find it entertaining enough to come back. Some of us find DC entertaiing and MB kinda.. well.... zzzz.....

[xandandl]

Also, Prelims and Semi attendance numbers were up slightly from 2013 (2013 Prelim and Semis attendance was slightly LOWER than 2012). Growth across the board = successful season!!!

I hold that the opening of Indiana public schools so early in August, particularly in the Greater Indianapolis area (Marion County and environs) meant that several h.s. bands did not attend DCI prelims because it was a school day/night whether they went as a unit or an individuals in previous years. It seemed as if there were less younger folks at prelims especially (one could actually get to the concessions and facilities during intermissions without interminable lines.) Otherwise, just conjecture from one who has been to all the Indys.

[N.E. Brigand]

I agree that with press releases what they don't say is probably more important than what they say. But in this case what they say is pretty strong evidence of improvement overall. Which suggests that elements such as artsy shows, the introduction of band instruments, and perennially dominant corps are not hurting the activity after all. Maybe, just maybe, these guys know what they are doing.

The reasons for attendance growth are probably a complicated mix.

Regarding perennial dominance: in 2011, 2012, and 2013, there was fierce competition at the top. I say that knowing full well that BD won every show in 2012, because a lot of people held out hope for Crown all season long, and Crown consistently kept about a point behind, meaning that right to the end, Crown fans thought their corps had a chance. (Maybe they were wrong to do so, but then you could say the same, for instance, to Buccaneers fans in DCA this year or Phantom fans in 2008.)

Regarding arty shows, I'm not sure that the shows in 2013 and 2014 really were so esoteric, compared to earlier years (BD '13 aside). DCI made a deliberate (if perhaps incoherent) push encouraging corps to increase their audience engagement in the past few years that arguably has begun to pay off. The people that found Crown's championship show so exciting, even though they never thought they could enjoy amplified voice in drum corps, probably still don't get pleasure from the German and French stuff in BD's show the previous year (for which a paltry few stayed to watch the encore; I know because I was one of them). Cadets' "Side X Side", which you mentioned, had a bit too much bass synthesizer and never could get the tower movements free of awkwardness, but in terms of enjoyment, is it any less so than their "Stonehenge" from 1998? In some ways, it's more audience-friendly because none of that 2013 repertoire was new to drum corps fans. (Half the group I took to their first drum corps show last year picked that show over "e=mc2" as their favorite.)

[Pete Freedman]

The reasons for attendance growth are probably a complicated mix.

Regarding perennial dominance: in 2011, 2012, and 2013, there was fierce competition at the top. I say that knowing full well that BD won every show in 2012, because a lot of people held out hope for Crown all season long, and Crown consistently kept about a point behind, meaning that right to the end, Crown fans thought their corps had a chance. (Maybe they were wrong to do so, but then you could say the same, for instance, to Buccaneers fans in DCA this year or Phantom fans in 2008.)

Regarding arty shows, I'm not sure that the shows in 2013 and 2014 really were so esoteric, compared to earlier years (BD '13 aside). DCI made a deliberate (if perhaps incoherent) push encouraging corps to increase their audience engagement in the past few years that arguably has begun to pay off. The people that found Crown's championship show so exciting, even though they never thought they could enjoy amplified voice in drum corps, probably still don't get pleasure from the German and French stuff in BD's show the previous year (for which a paltry few stayed to watch the encore; I know because I was one of them). Cadets' "Side X Side", which you mentioned, had a bit too much bass synthesizer and never could get the tower movements free of awkwardness, but in terms of enjoyment, is it any less so than their "Stonehenge" from 1998? In some ways, it's more audience-friendly because none of that 2013 repertoire was new to drum corps fans. (Half the group I took to their first drum corps show last year picked that show over "e=mc2" as their favorite.)

Yeah, it is very hard to assess the "entertainment score" of a drum corps concept; there are so many different kinds of fans.

But we can conclude that either the top shows are just as entertaining as say, a few years ago, or more people are coming to finals in spite of the shows being less entertaining. Either way, there's no crisis for the activity as some have asserted.

[Pete Freedman]

Never said anything about a problem Mike. Just a question of if they if it find it entertaining enough to come back. Some of us find DC entertaiing and MB kinda.. well.... zzzz.....

I get what you're saying, but it's not the instrumentation that makes the difference. It's two key things that define a drum corps IMO:

1. The routing of top talent into the top units via the audition process

2. A professional style tour in which a kid does nothing but show for 2-3 months

Through classical conditioning we've just associated flutes, clarinets and saxophones with lower quality "part-timer" shows, but those instruments aren't causing the lower quality. It's the part-time training schedule and the big bell-curve of talent a each school that makes the difference.

But yeah, if I had seen a sousaphone out there (say in a top corps) I'd have started wretching on the spot. Classical conditioning works!

[N.E. Brigand]

Yeah, it is very hard to assess the "entertainment score" of a drum corps concept; there are so many different kinds of fans.

But we can conclude that either the top shows are just as entertaining as say, a few years ago, or more people are coming to finals in spite of the shows being less entertaining. Either way, there's no crisis for the activity as some have asserted.

I would say that the current crisis, such as it is, started about ten years ago (although probably as an acceleration of an older trend), and may be coming to an end. The G7 movement probably wouldn't have happened if those directors in 2010 didn't perceive some sort of looming disaster. As has been noted, we don't have enough data about attendance over the years, especially overall attendance, to comment for certain. Certainly the total number of competing field corps in North America, as I observed over the summer (in the face of some protest), dropped significantly between 2005 and 2006, going from 89 to 70, and then falling to as low as 64 just last year and only slightly up, to 66, this year. I think anybody who was told that there were 89 drum corps nine years ago and 66 now would say that drum corps was indeed undergoing some sort of crisis. The number of participants has definitely dropped. (Some might claim that this decrease has been offset by a rise in the number of competitive scholastic marching bands, but in Ohio, at least, there are no more students marching competitively now than there were a decade ago.) I would tentatively venture to say that a general malaise already in place, as demonstrated by the 2006 drop, was then exacerbated by the economic collapse that began in late 2007 (and only concluded, in terms of unemployment, early this summer).