Cappybara Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I guess it's all about the type of person you are (brass/guard/pit/percussion). I'd notice the difference in adding 5 more powerful contras than 5 cymbals. Cymbals are background noise to me. Can't the pit use crash cymbals anyways? Wouldn't that have basically the same effect? (forgive me for my percussion ignorance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) the show design is not about what interests "you". no one designs a show for "you". you're the one trying to place your opinion above anyone else's. "i watch the pit. what's wrong with that?" ROFL. this isn't about whether it's ok for you do that. the point was (and is) that the show designers probably don't intend for you to watch the pit. so while it's perfectly ok for "you" to watch the FE the whole show, it should occur to you -- just possibly -- that it is NOT the designer's intent. You misunderstand me. Never did I maintain that shows are designed for me personally, and I certainly did not place my opinion above anyone elses. Nor did I ask what's wrong with watching the pit as that would be a moronic question to ask. I watch what I want to watch and couldn't really give two ####s what anyone thinks. Live and let live. You seem determined to respond to what you wish I had written rather than what I actually said. Of course "the designers" (it's not clear who you mean when you say this, there are several designers that have input into the visual program and they do not always have the same goals) do not mean for me to watch the pit the whole show. Who said otherwise, other than you. The point is that there are any number of things on the field that can draw your eye away from what "the designers" want you to see, whatever that may be - and it may be multiple things. I've listed some of these things above. Cymbals are just another one of these, and I personally don't find them any more distracting than anything else. You disagree, and that's fine. But do not generalize your opinion. And all this is based on the ridiculous assumption that "the designers", including apparently the percussion designer, intend for you to never look at the cymbals, when of course they do intend so. If a corps didn't want you to look at something it wouldn't put that thing on the field. and why do you keep trying to turn the discussion into a personal issue and not about the facts? The point is that you're universalizing your personal opinions and declaring them "facts". You made it personal from the start. And let's not forgot your dismissive "Obviously a percussionist". Who's making things personal again? sorry for stepping on your toes. i'll leave you alone now. I rather feel like I stepped on your toes when I had the temerity to disagree with your dearly held opinion. And this is the second time you've unilaterally declared the discussion over. Will you resist temptation or will you cave once again? I await with bated breath. Edited October 12, 2014 by Rifuarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) I guess it's all about the type of person you are (brass/guard/pit/percussion). I'd notice the difference in adding 5 more powerful contras than 5 cymbals. Cymbals are background noise to me. Can't the pit use crash cymbals anyways? Wouldn't that have basically the same effect? (forgive me for my percussion ignorance) Can't the pit also use contras? Or better yet, can't the pit just use synthesizers and save the corps tens of thousands dollars? I guarantee you that within the next decade that some corps will use this logic as a justification for dumping synths (unlike dumping cymbals it makes a lot of financial, if not musical, sense). I remember in 2010 when Madison introduced its vaunted 20 man contra line (incidentally this is the year they cut their cymbal line). I didn't notice any real difference between their sound and the sounds of smaller contra lines. Of course I am a mere percussionist, but I know many brass players who made a similar complaint in 2010. Is it time that drum corps started cutting these ruinously expensive instruments? Edited October 12, 2014 by Rifuarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 So should I feel guilty if I don't watch what the designer wants me to watch? How about if I don't care what the designer wants me to watch? Irony is the latest issue of MAD Magazine (came yesterday) has an article of "Phrases That Left The English Language". One is "Exchange Of Ideas" which has two people saying "You're wrong"... "No you're wrong". Some of the posts over the last few pages remind of this for some reason.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) So should I feel guilty if I don't watch what the designer wants me to watch? How about if I don't care what the designer wants me to watch? Irony is the latest issue of MAD Magazine (came yesterday) has an article of "Phrases That Left The English Language". One is "Exchange Of Ideas" which has two people saying "You're wrong"... "No you're wrong". Some of the posts over the last few pages remind of this for some reason.. No Jim. That's Rifuarian's straw man argument he tried to inject. Obviously individual's can watch what they like and if you read what I said, I never said otherwise. The removal of cymbals lines from DCI corps is evidence enough that the folks who design shows saw more value is expandied hornlines and guards. Anyone who thinks a cymbal line is a not a visually distracting element would also argue that "sipit polished bells that reflect stadium lights. Sequins and mirrors on uniforms. Brightly colored flags and bright white rifles being tossed" are all "distracting things". Obviously they distract one from watching the front ensemble and percussion! All that said, shows are designed to lead the eye from moment to moment. Anything that takes the eye AWAY from where the designer wants the audience to focus is a distraction. The sheer act of playing makes a plate line a big distraction (except of course for those moments when the plates ARE the focus). Which is why most corps find more value in having those spots filled with OTHER sections. It's really not a hard decision to make. Distracting visuals and little musical contribution to the ensemble vs. members who can make a far larger contribution. The math is easy and most corps have come to the same conclusion. Edited October 12, 2014 by corpsband 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 When watching a show my attention jumps all around - from the brass, to the guard, to the percussion even to the drum major. Thank goodness for the Fan Network and the DVDs as they allow me to go back and watch something I wasn't paying attention to the first time at least if the camera has managed to follow it. I think a cymbal line can add some fun to the show. I'll often make a point to watch Vanguard's to look for all the neat stuff they do. One point though. I won't watch sabres. IMO they add nothing. i can't even see them half the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 So, what happens if Madison or SVC wins it all this year even "hampered" by a cymbal line. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 So, what happens if Madison or SVC wins it all this year even "hampered" by a cymbal line. LOL It will be interesting to see if Madison manages to hang on in 10th. Lots of hungry corps with their eyes on that spot and the scouts lost Mason et al. As for Vanguard, I'm still meh. I liked Bartok and Ligetti better than their recent efforts. And I cringe everytime I see them march the cavies technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) LOL - I don't see cymbal lines as being that distracting. Just another piece of equipment being carried. But I come from the age of marching tymps and bells which took up way more visual space than cymbals. Unless we're talking about my bud John Zona (RIP) (Rochester, Erie) who had cymbals so big he had to crank his head backwards to get it out of the way. And for extra visuals he'd play without a lid, shaved head and fu Manchu stood out real good then. But corpsband if I reading it right, you're putting most of the emphasis on the visual part of the show and some of us put that on the audible. Edited October 12, 2014 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 But corpsband if I reading it right, you're putting most of the emphasis on the visual part of the show and some of us put that on the audible. No. Not just visual. Musically their contribution is either already covered in the pit or is pretty much inaudible. All the myriad (and strangely named) techniques a good line plays just don't carry to the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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